***OFFICIAL*** B.J. Penn vs Jon Fitch Pre/Post Fight Discussion - Page 26 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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View Poll Results: Who will win?

BJ Penn 34 50.00%
Jon Fitch 34 50.00%
Voters: 68. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-27-2011, 05:29 AM   #251 (permalink)
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Thanks for the responses everyone. But I didn't want to turn this into a Fitch sucks thread. I am hoping that TraMaI and some other Fitch or GSP fans will reply with their thoughts on if they think the sport has changed or is changing.

For example, now that BJ seems to have coaches that come up with real gameplans (sure as hell surprised me to see him come out going for takedowns). I bet his coaches will review the fight and try to convince BJ that the flying knee was a bad idea, and that without the knee or the quick transitions to choke attempts he stood a much better chance at winning the first 2 rounds and also not expend so much energy on the choke attempts.

I understand we like excitement and want to pay for that. But as more fighters see that being overly aggressive hurts their chances to win, then they will change.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:34 AM   #252 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by box View Post
I saw it (10-9 Penn, 10-10, 10-9 fitch), for a Draw. For a 10-8 round, you have to rock the other fighter imo, you can't just pin them to hold position and land enough punches to not get stood up. That's my take on this.
Exactly. That 3rd round was weird, i'd say that Jon was really dominant in the round but on the other hand he only did enough to stay on the ground and didn't do any damage.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:35 AM   #253 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by donbarz View Post
Thanks for the responses everyone. But I didn't want to turn this into a Fitch sucks thread. I am hoping that TraMaI and some other Fitch or GSP fans will reply with their thoughts on if they think the sport has changed or is changing.

For example, now that BJ seems to have coaches that come up with real gameplans (sure as hell surprised me to see him come out going for takedowns). I bet his coaches will review the fight and try to convince BJ that the flying knee was a bad idea, and that without the knee or the quick transitions to choke attempts he stood a much better chance at winning the first 2 rounds and also not expend so much energy on the choke attempts.

I understand we like excitement and want to pay for that. But as more fighters see that being overly aggressive hurts their chances to win, then they will change.
Alright i'll stop my fitch hate and give u a serious answer. I don't think fitch is part of the evolution of mma as good as he is and as good as he can be he can never beat gsp. He is 33 and i don't see him getting that much better. I do see fighters in the near future having fitch wrestling ability but more better overall. Jon Jones is a great example of the evolution of mma. Jon Fitch is a great fighter but he has maxed out. Unless he starts striking and mixes it up he will alway be second or third best at ww.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:43 AM   #254 (permalink)
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I think there are so many different factors to include. I mean FOTN bonus's for lower tier fighters are huge and often quadriple their salary. They probably balance out if its worth it and in alot of cases it is. But yeah my point is there are so many factors. Do they want to be a fan favourite, do they want a reputation as being boring? The guys who are ruthless atm are ruthless due to that being their nature, not because of any decisions they've, its just natural. I doubt they'll change.

What I will say is perhaps as the sport grows more guys will come into this sport with that mindset of just getting the W
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:49 AM   #255 (permalink)
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I think its moreso an example of how crappy Penn's coaching and training staff is moreso than anything else. He's been bringing in quality people like Hughes, but its not enough.

BJ lost twice to Frankie Edgar.

At some point, he realizes he should have gone balls to the walls against Edgar & that it would be his best chance to win.

Based on that, BJ and his planning / strategy camp think... "Oh, the answer must be to go balls to the wall against Jon Fitch".

Its a gameplan that makes as much sense as Jose Aldo trying to overpower and outwrestle Brock Lesnar.

AKA -- VERY DUMB IDEA.

Yet due to the low quality of Penn's staff, none of them seem to realize why its a bad idea to try that approach against someone who has a size and weight advantage.

Ditto with the way Penn tried to finish the fight. He needed to pick his spots and use the right tool for the job like Anderson Silva does. When there's an opening for a kick, Silva kicks. He does a flying knee when there's a perfect opportunity for one. He lets circumstances dictate what he does and looks for the perfect opportunity to execute.

Penn tried to force the finish and went for a RNC when maybe it would have been better to go for GnP or something else.

He tried to force a flying knee when Fitch was too far away from him.

He had a bad gameplan and made a lot of fundamental errors.

You're right in that it shows how things have evolved. BJ might have gotten away with making those types of mistakes in the past. But, these days its harder and harder to get away with things..

Last edited by Trix : 02-27-2011 at 05:51 AM.
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Old 02-27-2011, 05:53 AM   #256 (permalink)
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Those were some first 2 rounds! When BJ defended the TD, took Fitch down, and tried to get the RNC in, I thought how can you finish a guy like Fitch this quick.. when you're almost twice his size. But, ofcourse, you can't.. not this time anyway..
I hope there'll be a rematch and BJ will train like a motherf***er, so he can kick Fitch's ass.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:34 AM   #257 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leed View Post
Those were some first 2 rounds! When BJ defended the TD, took Fitch down, and tried to get the RNC in, I thought how can you finish a guy like Fitch this quick.. when you're almost twice his size. But, ofcourse, you can't.. not this time anyway..
I hope there'll be a rematch and BJ will train like a motherf***er, so he can kick Fitch's ass.
Twice his size?! Wat are you talking about?!

The difference is size and weight wasn't that big actually.
I don't think there were more than 10 lbs between them.
Considering how many people said Fitch would be at over 190 lbs on fight night and BJ at 170-175.

The difference in cardio though, yes!
Fitch had enough fuel to go one or two rounds. BJ didn't.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:35 AM   #258 (permalink)

 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leed View Post
Those were some first 2 rounds! When BJ defended the TD, took Fitch down, and tried to get the RNC in, I thought how can you finish a guy like Fitch this quick.. when you're almost twice his size. But, ofcourse, you can't.. not this time anyway..
I hope there'll be a rematch and BJ will train like a motherf***er, so he can kick Fitch's ass.
It'll be a completely different fight next time round. Different game plans on both parts. I'd be curious to see if BJ can take Fitch down in a second fight like he did last night. Fitch did say afterwards he trained NO defensive wrestling as he didn't expect that? Who knows.

I scored it a draw with the 10 point must, Gave BJ the first two, and Fitch the 3rd with a 10-8 round.

BJ sounded very mentally beaten afterwards though That 3rd round was rough.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:38 AM   #259 (permalink)
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Twice his size?! Wat are you talking about?!

The difference is size and weight wasn't that big actually.
I don't think there were more than 10 lbs between them.
Considering how many people said Fitch would be at over 190 lbs on fight night and BJ at 170-175.

The difference in cardio though, yes!
Fitch had enough fuel to go one or two rounds. BJ didn't.
I obviously didn't mean the 'twice' literary, but you can't deny the difference in size and strenght. I doubt BJ was even over 170 fight night, and Fitch is definately stronger than BJ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KryOnicle View Post
BJ sounded very mentally beaten afterwards though That 3rd round was rough.
He did sound broken, but atleast he also did smile a bit when he said "but.. if god gave me the draw, and Fitch wants to fight again, I'll do it".
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Old 02-27-2011, 07:16 AM   #260 (permalink)
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If anyone won the fight it was Fitch, of course....but a draw is not an outrageous result.

Penn won the first round for me and was winning the second before Fitch turn when BJ had his back and finished the stronger. I don't really think if you judge the round as a whole it was easily Fitch's round because before the last min Penn had been the stronger. I can see why a draw would be awarded for that round.

Final round, well Fitch decievely won it.

To me though I can see why a draw was rewarded and I wasn't shocked when it was announced.

I think possibly its a problem with the way MMA fights are judged. They basically use the boxing scoring system and I am not sure it always accurately reflects the result of an mma match like it does a boxing match.

For one, in boxing a knock down is much more significant so it easily scores the round 10/8 and reflects the dominance of that round to one fighter.

In mma there are usually only 3 rounds, 5 at most (boxing has 10/12 rounds for the scoring system to take shape and the best fighter on the night to win on points)

Personally I think judging the fight as a whole would be better for mma than using the round by round boxing score card system.

Or, at least develop a way to reflect key moments in a fight on the score card (like how a knock down does on boxing) in other words in some way a dominant round needs to score more (somehow) than a round in which there was no clear winner but it gets awarded to one guy.

Last night for example, is it fair that BJ wins a round 10/9 for the first and Fitch's third round is only 10/9 also? To me the thrid round for Fitch is equally dominant as a boxing round where a knock down was scored and in some way there should be a criteria in place to reflect the dominance of a fighter in a round with a 10/8 or even 10/7 rounds...after all not all rounds are created equal and over 3 rounds key action should be more significant and 10/8 rounds should be more frequent when a fighter kicks the others arse.
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