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Old 03-04-2011, 09:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I think fights should be scored on effective offense not defense. If you can stop someones take down you should then counter and use your own offense. This would be the reward for good tdd because if you don't have it your less likely to get your offense off.

If your grappling on the ground and constantly defending submissions should you get points for that? I say no, your not winning the fight your surviving.

When Brock was getting pummeled by Carwin he blocked most of the shots. Should he of won the round? No he was clearly losing but because Shane was to aggressive Brock was able to win, thus rewarding his defense.

If Anderson Silva decided to show off and not throw any offense out and just use his matrix powers to dodge 99 out of 100 strikes should he win? No, he still got hit and didn't do damage.

Lowering the points giving out for take downs especially ones that are just drag downs and lead to nothing would be a good idea though.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:21 PM   #22 (permalink)

 
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Defending a TD and a submission are not the same, fighters can stall in a TD attempt all day long there has to be an incentive to give it up and try something else. Your also seriously undervaluing the amount of skill involved.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
Defending a TD and a submission are not the same, fighters can stall in a TD attempt all day long there has to be an incentive to give it up and try something else. Your also seriously undervaluing the amount of skill involved.

Yeah those comparisons were WAY off. A good example is when Florian stole a round or two from BJ just by holding him against the cage "trying" for a take-down. Or how Diego attempted like 17 take-downs and didn't complete a single one.
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:33 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dario03 View Post
I think fights should be scored on effective offense not defense. If you can stop someones take down you should then counter and use your own offense. This would be the reward for good tdd because if you don't have it your less likely to get your offense off.

If your grappling on the ground and constantly defending submissions should you get points for that? I say no, your not winning the fight your surviving.

When Brock was getting pummeled by Carwin he blocked most of the shots. Should he of won the round? No he was clearly losing but because Shane was to aggressive Brock was able to win, thus rewarding his defense.

If Anderson Silva decided to show off and not throw any offense out and just use his matrix powers to dodge 99 out of 100 strikes should he win? No, he still got hit and didn't do damage.

Lowering the points giving out for take downs especially ones that are just drag downs and lead to nothing would be a good idea though.
Its not just that easy. Two 100% evenly matched guys with one deciding to stand and strike and one deciding to shoot over and over going for nothing but the takedown and stall guess who wins? Especially if someone is grinding on you its hard to counter, its all you can do to defend, which often times can mean you are more skilled, but with the current set of rules will lose to the lesser fighter. This eventually leads to all fighters grinding out decisions when faced with evenly matched and well rounded opponents.
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Old 03-05-2011, 02:42 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
I agree, take-down defense is a ridiculously undervalued skill in MMA scoring.



In a cage, it's much much harder to stuff a take-down than it is to complete one. Even if you can't shoot a fast double you can always drive them against the cage and get it from there.



I think judges confuse the cage pummeling with Randy Couture style clinch fighting. Let's say in JDS vs. Nelson, Nelson went for a takedown quite a few times and the couple of times Cigano couldn't shuck him off quick, Nelson had him temporarily pressed against the cage.


In pummeling, JDS was winning that exchange because he was stuffing the takedown. But from the judges perspective, Nelson was holding him against the cage, therefor "octagon control."



We need some judges who understand wrestling.
Totally agree.

Also, in the Diego-Kamp fight, with the TDD attempt:success ratio, I kept thinking "a broken clock is right twice a day." Big deal.
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Old 03-05-2011, 03:05 AM   #26 (permalink)
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TDD should be scored as octagon control and or effective grappling. The biggest beef I have currently with how MMA is scored is that certain styles seem to have a distinct scoring advantage over others. In striking, aggressive fighters have an advantage over counter-fighters regardless of how effective the counter-striker is during the fight. In grappling, wrestlers clearly have a huge advantage in scoring points than submission fighters or grapplers. I think both the striking and grappling need to be judged more in depth than trying to lump everything into a nice and tidy 5 rule system, the sport is too diverse and complicated for it these days.
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