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Old 03-29-2011, 04:16 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soojooko View Post
I dunno... that punch to Ruas body that took him down and out looked like it was packing serious power. I very much doubt he was that gassed.
You can bet on it that it really hurt. That was a Bas Rutten approved liver shot that finally took him out and forced him even to tap, but he softened him up with that knee to the body on the ground before. Rua stumbled backwards already quite wobbly.

I like Jones going for that body hook to the liver where most fighters would try to go for the head. It shows his good awareness for target openings. That hook was also nice in its execution with Jones twisting his body full into that shot. Everyone who has ever received one of these knows that there is no breathing afterwards and how painful they are.
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Old 03-29-2011, 04:33 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by SM33 View Post
So write another novel if you want, but get off my back!
Did i hurt your feelings or what?!

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Originally Posted by SM33 View Post
Limba I'm not going to even bother addressing all of your unnecessarily long responses, all I'll say is;

1 - I've been saying Jones will have cardio problems due to size, long before this fight.

2 - Shogun's condition was a major factor in everyone's mind before the fight, but now Jones won, all of a sudden that has been forgotten. I've said in many posts that I think it was partly Shogun's form, but mostly the damage Jones did.
Look:
1. He clearly was tired. I agree on that. Even Greg Jackson said it.

2. Apart from fighting at a pretty high pace and being always active - not like some of the lay'n pray artists - you have to take in consideration the fact that he fought 2 times in 6 weeks after 5 months of camp/training + 2 weight cuts.
There is a reason why proffesional fighters don't have fights scheduled every 6 weeks or something.

3. Jon Jones will be a HW one day. At this time though he is too small. He needs to add at least 20 lbs. He weighs in at 222-225 when he's not fighting, but with a low percent of body fat. Something like GSP...
I gave you arguments - the smallest HW is Cro Cop, at 225 lbs. The nest in line is Struve at 240.
You're calling Jones a "weight cutting monster", when it is a proven fact that there are other LHWs who cut much more weight than he does.
But, of course they're not "weight cutting monsters", no?!
I don't know why you insist on this.
He said it himself: he will fight at HW one day. Get over it.

4. I should enjoy saying this, especially when so many people are discrediting Jones' victory over Shogun, because "Shogun wasn't his usual, he got tired and gassed".
If Shogun was too tired...and Jones was tired also = a fight between 2 tired fighters.
Logical conclusion: a tired Jones beat a tired Shogun.

I fu*king can't wait to see a "non-tired Jones" fight next!

PS: don't take it too personal man. I enjoy your posts, even though i don't agree with everything you say...
I even eased on the sarcasm, to make the debates more productive.
Your posts are challenging.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:10 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Did i hurt your feelings or what?!



Look:
1. He clearly was tired. I agree on that. Even Greg Jackson said it.

2. Apart from fighting at a pretty high pace and being always active - not like some of the lay'n pray artists - you have to take in consideration the fact that he fought 2 times in 6 weeks after 5 months of camp/training + 2 weight cuts.
There is a reason why proffesional fighters don't have fights scheduled every 6 weeks or something.

3. Jon Jones will be a HW one day. At this time though he is too small. He needs to add at least 20 lbs. He weighs in at 222-225 when he's not fighting, but with a low percent of body fat. Something like GSP...
I gave you arguments - the smallest HW is Cro Cop, at 225 lbs. The nest in line is Struve at 240.
You're calling Jones a "weight cutting monster", when it is a proven fact that there are other LHWs who cut much more weight than he does.
But, of course they're not "weight cutting monsters", no?!
I don't know why you insist on this.
He said it himself: he will fight at HW one day. Get over it.

4. I should enjoy saying this, especially when so many people are discrediting Jones' victory over Shogun, because "Shogun wasn't his usual, he got tired and gassed".
If Shogun was too tired...and Jones was tired also = a fight between 2 tired fighters.
Logical conclusion: a tired Jones beat a tired Shogun.

I fu*king can't wait to see a "non-tired Jones" fight next!

PS: don't take it too personal man. I enjoy your posts, even though i don't agree with everything you say...
I even eased on the sarcasm, to make the debates more productive.
Your posts are challenging.
i was one of the ppl who thought shogun wasnt 100%, until i saw an interview where he himself said that after that knee in the beginning he was out of it, so yeah...JBJ is scary, though i wonder how well shogun would do if he wasnt rocked in the 1st second of the fight lol

but anyway, i think we do need to take into account that he had 2 fights in 6 weeks, that is pretty insane, though we also have to account that pretty much every fight he starts getting tired, every fight that has gone passed the 1st

this isnt something terrible, pretty much 90% of fighters get more tired as the fight goes on obviously, but the problem is he does too much too early, and if some figher does make him work a lot but survive into the 4th and 5th rounds they would have a great chance at beating him

im not saying thats easy, im just saying thats one area some1 with great cardio could exploit, though like i said earlier i think JBJ has the cardio to do well for 5 rounds, he seems to get tired but still be dangerous so he doesnt have bad cardio he just pushes himself too much IMO

i think he if learned to pace himself he could sit at the top easier like GSP and AS, he probably will develop a more calm fighting style later on no doubt, its just too risky to fight the way he does, makes it much harder to be on top for as long as other dominant champs
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:36 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DropKick View Post
Machida fights at a snails pace. No way that's enough to make someone gas. In order for the fight to go 5 rounds Machida would have to make Jones fight at his pace. Jones dictates the pace of fights. The problem would be, could Machida last with 5 rounds with JJ and not get pounded out.
Well Machida has knocked people out when they try to fight at their pace and not his. I'm not saying he'll do that to Jones but we shouldn't be too shocked if it happens.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:37 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Jones would mangle Machida. The reach would be to much. And not only that Machida would have to win a lot of fights to make it back to a title shot after 2(or 3 depending on how you look at it) losses.
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Old 03-29-2011, 05:56 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Suvaco View Post
Well Machida has knocked people out when they try to fight at their pace and not his. I'm not saying he'll do that to Jones but we shouldn't be too shocked if it happens.
Well said! Agree

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Originally Posted by Wookie View Post
Jones would mangle Machida. The reach would be to much. And not only that Machida would have to win a lot of fights to make it back to a title shot after 2(or 3 depending on how you look at it) losses.
Machida is light years ahead of Jon Jones. IT's not even close! I can't wait to see how people will act after he faces a great striker. You guys must be completely shocked then.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:13 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Ummm, no. Jones would destroy Machida like he destroyed Shogun. The only guys who are going to present a challenge to Jones are the elite HWs.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:23 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Ummm, no. Jones would destroy Machida like he destroyed Shogun. The only guys who are going to present a challenge to Jones are the elite HWs.
Unbeatable!
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:35 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Nice post, but being such a maniac, allow me to quote youmy way.

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Originally Posted by ACTAFOOL View Post
i was one of the ppl who thought shogun wasnt 100%, until i saw an interview where he himself said that after that knee in the beginning he was out of it, so yeah...JBJ is scary, though i wonder how well shogun would do if he wasnt rocked in the 1st second of the fight lol
That's almost impossible to say. But i'm leaning on the same outcome, with Jones taking Shogun and working his GnP.

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Originally Posted by ACTAFOOL View Post
but anyway, i think we do need to take into account that he had 2 fights in 6 weeks, that is pretty insane, though we also have to account that pretty much every fight he starts getting tired, every fight that has gone passed the 1st
Bolded part - thank you!
It's not only the 2 fights. It's also about being in a pre fight training camp for about 5 months + doing 2 weigh cuts in 6 weeks.
And about him getting tired - it's not like he gasses all of a sudden. He gets tired. He showed this against Bonnar in the 3rd rd and against Shogun at the end of the 2nd.
But he kept pushing the pace and controlling the fight.

Jones is not a lay'n pray type of fighter. he is constantly working for positions, always looking to control his opponents + he always goes for GnP. It's not like sleeping over the guy lying underneath him.

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Originally Posted by ACTAFOOL View Post
this isnt something terrible, pretty much 90% of fighters get more tired as the fight goes on obviously, but the problem is he does too much too early, and if some figher does make him work a lot but survive into the 4th and 5th rounds they would have a great chance at beating him

im not saying thats easy, im just saying thats one area some1 with great cardio could exploit, though like i said earlier i think JBJ has the cardio to do well for 5 rounds, he seems to get tired but still be dangerous so he doesnt have bad cardio he just pushes himself too much IMO
Agreed in many ways.
Although, saying someone just needs to hang on until the 4th or 5th round and then take over the fight sounds like a fairy tale. Especially when no fighter has finished the 3rd rd against him, after the Bonnar fight.
And, even tired, he has the advantage every wrestler has: he can take his opponent down and do some "lay'n pray"...Although i don't think it's something that describes Jones atm.
It's hard to say, until it happens really.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACTAFOOL View Post
i think he if learned to pace himself he could sit at the top easier like GSP and AS, he probably will develop a more calm fighting style later on no doubt, its just too risky to fight the way he does, makes it much harder to be on top for as long as other dominant champs
I agree, but hey ... youth + enthusiasm + the desire to please the bosses, the fans, the sponsors = his style.

Once he feels more comfortable with his skills, he will mature and probably calm down a bit.

Not too much, i hope
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:43 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I think the real question is would Machida survive 5 rounds with Bones Jones.

Don't think so brah.
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