Lesnar has better chance against JDS than against Cain - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 04-16-2011, 01:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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One of my daughters is going through the same thing that Brock is dealing with, if sparring gets real intense real quick she struggles.

If the other child is more of a relaxed fighter she can give them hell but if they get right in her face and start throwing down she wilts.

I think its the best strategy for anyone who fights Brock till he gets a handle on his instinct to shy from punches.

It has a lot to do with confidence in your ability to strike and take a punch IMO.
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:21 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by oldfan View Post
#1 pretty much sums it up. Brock took Cain down twice. The second time Cain got to his feet was simply amazing. I have to watch it in slow motion just to see what happened.

To be short and to the point: Junior can't do that.

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Same here - I watched it a bunch of times in slo mo, and it literally looked like he bounced off his ass back into standing position. I've seen little guys with that kind of agility, but a HW? Against Lesnar?? Wow.
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:28 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I've just rewatched the Dos Santos - Nelson fight and Dos Santos didn't throw a single high kick and only one or two low kicks while Nelson was like the perfect opponent to mix things up and throw punch-low kick combos. Dos Santos probably could easily had a TKO had he thrown a couple of low kicks.

Against Lesner though I agree with most people here. It probably will be a hard time for Dos Santos to avoid that take down from Lesner who's not going to stand like Nelson. I guess it's going quite to depend whether Dos Santos can land a clean shot right into the face of Lesnar to make afraid of engaging.
Nelson was gassed and JDS was unloading on him like he was a heavybag - amazing Nelson took all that punishment. BUT, Nelson did stay in the pocket, didn't turn his back, and kept his eyes open, and was at least a threat to throw a counter KO punch, and JDS had to respect that and not completely sell out with a barrage of bombs. If JDS tags Lesnar, though, Lesnar turtles and JDS will simply go off on him, imo.
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:28 PM   #24 (permalink)
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A much better chance!!!
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:38 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Is the armbar a joke? its almost impossible to submit Lesnar's upperbody, only way he can get submitted is leg locks.
I don't see Lesnar getting subbed either, and I'm sure he's drilled leglock escapes since Mir I. If I were JDS, I wouldn't want to be on the ground at all.

If JDS tags Lesnar a few times and he goes down, do you follow him down to the ground, or just make him stand up while he's still dazed and put on a boxing clinic??
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Old 04-16-2011, 02:59 PM   #26 (permalink)
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While I still like JDS' chances to beat up Brock on his feel, I think that Brock has a better chance against JDS than he did against his lopsided a**kicking by Cain Velasquez.

My reasoning is this:
1. As a top HW collegiate wrestler, Cain's double leg takedown defense, and TDD in general, is as good as it gets in the HW division. When Lesnar did take him down, Cain got right back up. How many guys are good enough to get back up with Brock on them? Maybe one - CV.

2. JDS' is a longer, leaner guy who's TDD isn't as good as Cains...Brock has better chance of taking him down and keeping him on the ground. Again, JDS won't get up as easily as Cain did if he gets taken down.

3. JDS likes high kicks and knees more than Cain, who pretty much relies on solid boxing and low kicks, and never really left himself open alot of takedowns with high kicks/knees.

JDS has to throw down to get Brock into his "duck and cover" mode. If he does it'll look like the CV fight, but I think Brock's got a better chance at beating JDS than he ever will against CV.
#1. Carwin also shrugged off Lesnar's takedown attempt in the first. It wasn't until he was gassed that Lesnar was able to get him down.

#2. How does being long and lean make one weaker technically? Cain weighs in at about 240, JDS in the 230s. JDS is leaner than Velasquez, impling more muscle mass per lb, which assuming proper training methods, means more strength per lb.

#3. I have never once seen JDS throw a high kick. He will work leg kicks on occassion, but as a rule, he wins the stand up war with his hands only.

To get Lesnar to duck and cover, all you have to do is punch him in the face with any kind of power. JDS is most assurradly goingto win the stand-up portion of this fight. There is however one big glaring question about this fight, TDD.

JDS has only fought one accomplished wrestler in his UFC career, in Roy Nelson. However Nelson's takedowns are not the explosive power doubles you see from Lesnar, in fact he rarely relies on his takedowns. However against JDS he was unable to achieve anything, he was unable to get inside because of JDS' reach advantage(accurate strong jab), as well as JDS' use of footwork. Those are aspects of TDD, there's more to it than just the sprawl itself. However, his sprawl is something we've never seen, or haven't seen with any regularity.

All anyone has to go on concerning that ability is the rumors coming from Black House. Which say he has great TDD, however, the fighters at Black House aren't known for their takedowns.

In this fight I give the edge to JDS. Lesnar showed his wrestling isn't all its chocked up to be when he weighed 30+ lbs more than a man he couldn't hold down. His technical wrestling for MMA is his biggest flaw. He also lacks any kind of legitimate stand up skills. I base this on his reaction to Cain pummeling the f*ck out of him. A standing hammerfist. Are you f*cking kidding me, a standing hammerfist. If JDS can sprawl, its night-night for Lesnar.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:23 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mastodon2222 View Post
If JDS tags Lesnar a few times and he goes down, do you follow him down to the ground, or just make him stand up while he's still dazed and put on a boxing clinic??
Junior doesn't fight like that, you can quote me. If he knocks Lesnar down or turtles him against the cage he's going for the kill.


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#1. Carwin also shrugged off Lesnar's takedown attempt in the first. It wasn't until he was gassed that Lesnar was able to get him down.

#2. How does being long and lean make one weaker technically? Cain weighs in at about 240, JDS in the 230s. JDS is leaner than Velasquez, impling more muscle mass per lb, which assuming proper training methods, means more strength per lb.

#3. I have never once seen JDS throw a high kick. He will work leg kicks on occassion, but as a rule, he wins the stand up war with his hands only.

To get Lesnar to duck and cover, all you have to do is punch him in the face with any kind of power. JDS is most assurradly goingto win the stand-up portion of this fight. There is however one big glaring question about this fight, TDD.

JDS has only fought one accomplished wrestler in his UFC career, in Roy Nelson. However Nelson's takedowns are not the explosive power doubles you see from Lesnar, in fact he rarely relies on his takedowns. However against JDS he was unable to achieve anything, he was unable to get inside because of JDS' reach advantage(accurate strong jab), as well as JDS' use of footwork. Those are aspects of TDD, there's more to it than just the sprawl itself. However, his sprawl is something we've never seen, or haven't seen with any regularity.

All anyone has to go on concerning that ability is the rumors coming from Black House. Which say he has great TDD, however, the fighters at Black House aren't known for their takedowns.

In this fight I give the edge to JDS. Lesnar showed his wrestling isn't all its chocked up to be when he weighed 30+ lbs more than a man he couldn't hold down. His technical wrestling for MMA is his biggest flaw. He also lacks any kind of legitimate stand up skills. I base this on his reaction to Cain pummeling the f*ck out of him. A standing hammerfist. Are you f*cking kidding me, a standing hammerfist. If JDS can sprawl, its night-night for Lesnar.

Agreed with a lot of this and JDS is the favorite for a reason. Stylistically he's perfect for beating Lesnar. Great TDD, insane hands and power, wicked killer instinct.


Lesnar is going to be visibly intimidated in the cage too, I guarantee it.
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Old 04-16-2011, 03:32 PM   #28 (permalink)
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The thing with Junior is, all we have seen are decent "good" hands so far. He doesn't use a complete striking arsenal even if it looks like that he can kick.

We don't know how legit his BJJ is.. probably nothing to brag about I would think.

Also his TDD defence has never been tested from someone who actually could test it. Brock will be the first and it would be mind blowing to me if he could stop that Takedown.
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Umm I'd say his bjj skills are legitimate, he trains under nog. I just don't think he is as athletic as Cain or Carwin and he's taller so defending the TD is not going to be as easy.

Lesnar like it or not is still learning and improving, I don't think he can keep up with JDS standing but I do think he could win a exchange or two before he got in too much trouble. Brock might be able to land a flush shot who knows.

Imo this is a very close fight, JDS has a edge but I can't say I'd be shocked to see Brock win.
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Old 04-16-2011, 06:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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He can be amazing at BJJ but the only thing that matters in this fight is getting off your back, because Lesnar is near impossible to submit unless you got for leg locks, his upper body is just too big to maintain a solid grip.
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