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Old 04-20-2011, 03:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mastodon2222 View Post
He sells tickets, plus it's a good classic matchup of wrestler vs. striker, BUT this fight is risky for Brock, imo because if he gets slapped around and looks like a rookie like he did against Cain, his rep will go into the tank and he won't be nearly as marketable. If I were managing him, I'd let him beat up a couple of cans before taking on JDS.
He only got slapped around by Cain after Cain was able to completely nullify Brock's top control. JDS will be going to the ground this fight, so in my mind an accurate statement would be:

If JDS has the ability to negate Brock's wrestling then he will destroy Brock in a brutal fashion, probably very similar to the Gonzaga KO. Although if JDS is unable to deal with Brock's high level wrestling then he will be completely eaten alive like Mir II.

These two are polar opposites, which in my mind will make for a very interesting fight at incredibly high stakes.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:57 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Cain was able to get back up from underneath Brock because
i) Brock rushed his positional advancement too much, not sure why but had he been calmer he would of stood a better chance of keeping Cain down;
ii) Cain is a division 1 level wrestler who has trained in wrestling pretty much non-stop for years and trains at an incredible camp.


However, no one Brock has face, i repeat NO ONE, has been able to prevent being taken to the ground. That includes Cain, Couture and Carwin. Junior is going to hit the ground - i sincerely doubt he will be able to get back up from underneath Brock. And if he cant, he is going to get manhandled similarly to how Mir did.

I see no reason to believe that Junior has TDD superior to that of Cain or Couture, or a similar ability to get up from his back.

If he does manage to get up however, and that in my view is a BIG if, he will destroy Brock on the feet. Thats no secret. I just dont think he'll get the chance to.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:57 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I see no reason to believe that Junior has TDD superior to that of Cain or Couture, or a similar ability to get up from his back.

Maybe because Cheick Kongo took Cain down, Gonzaga took Carwin down and mounted him, Vera took Couture down...
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:15 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Can someone please explain something to me?

How comes normally a champion loses he must prove him self in a few fights before getting another title shot, like shogun.

But how come brock lesnar gets his rematch with the champion after just 1 fight?
He is not getting anywhere near that title shot, watch the hype up and fall into it all you like, but the reality is this will be Brock's last MMA fight he has no place in the ring with JDS, Dana best milk this one all he can because its his last Brock pay check.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:27 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Maybe because Cheick Kongo took Cain down, Gonzaga took Carwin down and mounted him, Vera took Couture down...
Kongo is powerful man and could given the chance take Junior down , also Cain was right back up so that proves nothing apart from Kongo being an extremely strong man.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:32 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Kongo is powerful man and could given the chance take Junior down , also Cain was right back up so that proves nothing apart from Kongo being an extremely strong man.

My point is that if JDS had a Div 1 wrestling background but all his fights looked exactly the same, same take-down defense he's shown so far, people would have no problem saying he's got the best TDD at HW. But since he has no background, people were way more likely to say Carwin was better even though until the Lesnar fight he showed basically no wrestling.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:34 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Maybe because Cheick Kongo took Cain down, Gonzaga took Carwin down and mounted him, Vera took Couture down...
So...in otherwords "takedowns happen", what's your point? This fight really boils down to two things:

If JDS can get back up

If Brock doesn't react like a lil girl when he gets hit in the face.

I'm a Brock fan, I have been since he came into the UFC but you can't ignore the fact that he's scared of getting punched. And tbh I like JDS, he is a pretty entertaining fighter, and seems like a nice guy. But if he can't get up once Brock takes him down, it's gonna be a bad night for him.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
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My point is that if JDS had a Div 1 wrestling background but all his fights looked exactly the same, same take-down defense he's shown so far, people would have no problem saying he's got the best TDD at HW. But since he has no background, people were way more likely to say Carwin was better even though until the Lesnar fight he showed basically no wrestling.
I can see your point , i my take on the matter is he has shown good Takedown defence against the opponents he has faced non of whom are actually good wrestlers im not hating im just alluding to that fact. But you have to look at the skill level of his opponents. If he is able to shrug Lesnar off or even stuff half of his takedowns i would defiantly say he has the best or one of the best takedown defence in the division but at this point i cannot support the suggestion he has the best given who he has faced.





Im also not saying Kongo is a good wrestler thats why he took Cain down im simply stating that he is a strong man and used that to get the takedown.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:51 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I can see your point , i my take on the matter is he has shown good Takedown defence against the opponents he has faced non of whom are actually good wrestlers im not hating im just alluding to that fact. But you have to look at the skill level of his opponents. If he is able to shrug Lesnar off or even stuff half of his takedowns i would defiantly say he has the best or one of the best takedown defence in the division but at this point i cannot support the suggestion he has the best given who he has faced.





Im also not saying Kongo is a good wrestler thats why he took Cain down im simply stating that he is a strong man and used that to get the takedown.

Yeah I can understand that he hasn't faced anyone considered a "wrestler" but a lot of non wrestlers have taken down the wrestlers in the division, but guys with more or equal grappling credentials have had no luck taking JDS down.


Some people say his TDD is "unproven" and it isn't, he's proved he has good take-down defense. Whether it's the best or elite is the unproven part.


Honestly I think this is going to look a lot like Tito vs Chuck, Cigano being Chuck.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:56 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Yeah I can understand that he hasn't faced anyone considered a "wrestler" but a lot of non wrestlers have taken down the wrestlers in the division, but guys with more or equal grappling credentials have had no luck taking JDS down.


Some people say his TDD is "unproven" and it isn't, he's proved he has good take-down defense. Whether it's the best or elite is the unproven part.


Honestly I think this is going to look a lot like Tito vs Chuck, Cigano being Chuck.

Well i have picked Junior to win , i feel his lack of kicks will make the TD hard and his hands are dynamite. But i will fear for Santos if Lesnar gets on top and how will he cope with 265 giant on him.
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