Javier Mendez (AKA head trainer): If Cain chose to strike with Overeem, he would lose - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 10:56 AM
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Overeems opponents have been rubbish for quite some time now. In fact, since he started winning.

Cain takes this easy peasy.
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 11:29 AM
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This is a 50/50 fight for me.

Overeem is strong enough and has a good enough Wrestling base as well as a submission game to at least make it very difficult for Cain to take him down repeatedly, which he needs to do in order to win this fight.
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 01:03 PM
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Yah this is a 50/50 fight. Overeem can end it in an instant. His striking form is on another level right now. He's so crisp and tight with his combos. He barely slips his opponents punches and counters...BAM! Just watch the Duffee fight. It's not as easy as it looks when someone comes charging at you. That was Tyson shit right there. He can end it with his "Good night Ubereem knee", left hook, right cross.

Cain would have to constantly take em down, but doing so would mean being in danger of the Ubereem knee. I'm a bigger fan of Overeem so I'll roll with him on this fight. How sick would that be. Dream, K-1, SF, and future UFC HW champ.
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Lesnar is stronger than Overeem and Cain had zero problem.
This is more than an assumption.
You can't back your theory up. Neither can i - saying Overeem is stronger.

I just think Overeem is a very strong guy. And he has one thing Lesnar doesn't have: good technique.
The way he tossed Rogers arround the cage like a puppet?!...that wasn't pure strength alone. He used a lot of technique in that move and he made it look too easy.

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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Personally I think "Uber-reems" knees are too slow to catch Cain coming in on a shot. When he was at 205 he could throw those knees really fast but now that he's a huge guy they're pretty slow, although very powerful.
The *Uberknees* might not be the fastest in the game, but Oveerem loves to use them in the clinch more actually.
He could knee anyone trying to go for a TD, but in the Uberknee is more devastating. And Overeem knows how to inflict damage.

This being said, i think Overeem would take it, 7/10 times.

Too bad we have to wait so much for the fight to happen.

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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 04:50 PM
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This is more than an assumption.
You can't back your theory up. Neither can i - saying Overeem is stronger.


Except that Lesnar is bigger, heavier, and a wrestler. A wrestler (especially a high-level guy like Lesnar) feels SO much stronger than a striker like Overeem.


And saying he has great technique because he threw Brett Rogers... That kind of K-1 throw would never work on a guy like Cain, and seriously I'm not even a Cain fan and I'm getting sick of defending him.




My favorite part is how Overeem wilts like he always wilts. 20lbs of muscle later he has the same mentality.

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Except that Lesnar is bigger, heavier, and a wrestler. A wrestler (especially a high-level guy like Lesnar) feels SO much stronger than a striker like Overeem.


And saying he has great technique because he threw Brett Rogers... That kind of K-1 throw would never work on a guy like Cain, and seriously I'm not even a Cain fan and I'm getting sick of defending him.
Don't defend him then

I've brought up Overeem vs Rogers to point out what power + technique does.

My opinion stays strong: Overeem would beat Cain standing - no doubt. If Kongo tagged him, Overeem will do it also.
And while i believe Cain has great striking, i have to take in consideration the fact he hasn't faced elite strikers really: Rothwell, Nog and Lesnar aren't exactly what you would call excellent strikers, at least compared to Overeem.

And i also think Cain would be more cautious about rushing in for the TDs. I also don't see him GnPing Overeem for a TKO.

But Cain has his chance in this no doubt. It's just that i see him as the underdog in this one atm. His best chance would be to make it a long fight and use his cardio to tire Overeem somehow by grinding him.

And like i've said: such a shame this fight ain't happening for at least 12 months.
maybe the ZUFFA pulls a surprise out of the hat, who knows?!


EDIT: Overeem vs Kharitonov - that's not today's Overeem.
That fight is pre *Ubereem* and it describes Overeem's ealry career the best way possible: great begginings to the fight - dominating - followed by fading + getting KO'd.

That fighter is dead.
Today's *Ubereem* would murder that Overeem in < 60 seconds.
No dount in my mind.

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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-22-2011, 06:59 PM
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Sergei was the last good opponent Overeem faced in MMA.


And people underrate Kongo so much. Kongo is a world Muay Thai champion.

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by khoveraki View Post
Sergei was the last good opponent Overeem faced in MMA.


And people underrate Kongo so much. Kongo is a world Muay Thai champion.
Kongo is almost irrelevant these days.

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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 04:51 PM
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Don't defend him then

I've brought up Overeem vs Rogers to point out what power + technique does.

My opinion stays strong: Overeem would beat Cain standing - no doubt. If Kongo tagged him, Overeem will do it also.
And while i believe Cain has great striking, i have to take in consideration the fact he hasn't faced elite strikers really: Rothwell, Nog and Lesnar aren't exactly what you would call excellent strikers, at least compared to Overeem.

And i also think Cain would be more cautious about rushing in for the TDs. I also don't see him GnPing Overeem for a TKO.

But Cain has his chance in this no doubt. It's just that i see him as the underdog in this one atm. His best chance would be to make it a long fight and use his cardio to tire Overeem somehow by grinding him.

And like i've said: such a shame this fight ain't happening for at least 12 months.
maybe the ZUFFA pulls a surprise out of the hat, who knows?!


EDIT: Overeem vs Kharitonov - that's not today's Overeem.
That fight is pre *Ubereem* and it describes Overeem's ealry career the best way possible: great begginings to the fight - dominating - followed by fading + getting KO'd.

That fighter is dead.
Today's *Ubereem* would murder that Overeem in < 60 seconds.
No dount in my mind.

But BOTH VERSIONS of Overeem have no heart and suspect chin

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-23-2011, 05:20 PM
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Size doesn't matter much in MMA. Velasquez vs Lesnar is just another example to this blatantly obvious fact. Along that same coin, Overeem's mass and strength is no real advantage against Velasquez's use of leverage, in fact it makes it easier.

My expectation of this fight would be Cain outworking Overeem. The reason for this is, Aside from the fact that HW Overeem's most impressive groundwork was beating the snot out of CroCop and subbing cans, he's not fought a versatile, wellrounded wrestler/striker in years. Cain is the definition of a wellrounded wrestler/striker. Cain has some of the best cardio at HW, its almost kind of eerie how much of controlled chaos his fights are.

I think Overeem's finishing JJ is at a higher level than Cain's for one simple reason, he uses it in fights. There is a massive difference between pulling off an armbar when you're in the gym, vs pulling off an armbar against an opponent in competition. While Cain's coaches might say his JJ is way up there, I'll believe it when I see it.

I think if this fight ends on the feet, Overeem wins. If it ends in a sub, Overeem wins. If it ends in a TKO on the ground, Cain wins, if it goes the distance, Cain wins.

Edit: After further post reading I've come to the conculsion I'm crazy. Because I don't believe Overeem being bulky as hell has made him a better fighter than ten f*cking years ago. Perhaps it might be because that was ten f*cking years agao and he's a more intelligent seasoned fighter? Also: Overeem physically looked the best when he was around 230ish. He's far slower now than he was then. The Kharatonov fight is a perfect example of a youthful fighter blowing his cardio too early but still being explosive and quick.



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