Hiro

Do we know for sure how good it is?

I've always been one to say it's very good not because he's had a top wrestler shoot on him 5 times a round, but more because how easy he has shrugged off 95% of takedowns. The thing is, who has tried to take him down continuously - only Ortiz?

Rampage isn't really known for offensive wrestling, Rashad didn't shoot on him and got KOd quite quickly, Ortiz has mediocre wrestling and T.Silva isn't a wrestler/likes to strike.

I'm interested to see how Machida does with Randy trying to drag him to the mat over and over again. I suspect his TDD is as good it's hyped up to be, he's looked impossible to move so far but Randy is superior to Tito or Rampage in the wrestling department.

Will Randy get him down?

The Dark Knight

Interesting question. Machida's TDD for the most part has looked sublime to say the least. The way he made Tito look like he didn't know how to shoot was a masterclass in sprawl and brawl..or rather, clinch disengage and pick apart. Thing with Machida is he has good TDD defence from all areas. Ortiz isn't the best wrestler, but he's a strong guy with some technique and even when he did get his hands on Machida, Machida just completely outclinched him to either release himself or get a better positiion.
I suspect his background in sumo helps with this.

I think his TDD will prove to be more or less as good as we expect it to be come the Couture fight. Randy hasn't got the best shot these days so shooting on Machida will be a mistake because of his fast reflexes and ability to guage distance. If it was somebody like Rashad or a wrestler with that type of explosion with their takedowns then I can see that causing Machida problems, but Couture isn't the right age and doesn't have that explosive power anymore. And the clinch scenario will play out in a similar way to Randy vs Brandon Vera except Machida will be more aggressive and probably make Randy pay everytime he tries to bodylock him.

TheLyotoLegion

The only time I can ever recall him being taken down in the UFC was the one time Rampage got him down.

Been a while since I've seen the Rashad fight, but I don't remember if he shot or not but I know he shrugged off every Tito takedown, and Shogun never got him down either.

Tabares

shogun said in a interview that its hard to take him down becoz he got a very solid base..i just watched machida vs shogun 1 .. i can see at least 4 times when they where on the clinch when shogun is atempting to put him down but he cannot do it.

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lyoto machida

BobbyCooper

Randy Lovers forget that this is the worst stylistic matchup for Randy.. but no they say it's the other way around lol

cdtcpl

Machida, as part of his style, prevents you from ever getting a solid takedown attempt to begin with. I think if Randy gets double underhooks that Machida is going down.....but that is if. Machida has some pretty high quality TDD, but if Randy can get Lyoto in the clinch against the cage like Rampage did it will probably be a very different outcome.

That all being said, I will root for Randy, but who knows what the hell will happen in this fight of styles?

BobbyCooper

Also another important part which people tend ot forget is, what happens if Randy somehow does take Lyoto down?

Do you guys really believe he could keep him there? It won't look much different then as Rampage got him down for 2 seconds. Right back up

cdtcpl

That is a very clear possibility, but one of Randy's strongest points in his ground game is taking his opponents hips away from them. It doesn't matter who you are, if you can't use your hips on the ground then you are pretty much stuck till the guy on top says otherwise. I don't see Randy being able to posture up and drop bombs, but I think he could control Machida on the ground if he manages to get him there. Again, big if.

Servatose

This is a good thread. I think we can look at a few things to get an idea of Machida's TDD, as both the OP and other posters have implied. Also, the Shogun quote regarding Machida's TDD is interesting. One thing I do know about Machida's base, which can perhaps be some sort of correlation with the level of his TDD is that he did practice sumo. I also believe he held some sort of title in it. If that is true, which I'm fairly certain it is -- I don't really have the time to check sources but I believe I have before, it would say a lot about his TDD, because so much of sumo is based on positioning and keeping a solid base.

It also has a very deep level of competition because, not only has it been around for a really long time but there are so many practitioners, that high-level sumo would definitely be something to consider.

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TheLyotoLegion

I'd be a lot more confident in a Lyoto victory if he just hadn't lost to Rampage by basically being Coutured.

I still feel he'll lose the first round but catch Randy coming in with a knee and finish the fight on the ground mid-way through the second.

Lyoto's ground game is no joke though, this fight is truly interesting where ever it goes.