Lyoto Machida - Wins Against LW, WW, MW, LHW, HW Champs? - Page 5 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 04-25-2011, 05:59 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by M.C View Post
The fight was 3 minutes long and Machida was in no way dominating it or destroying Shogun. You could argue that Machida was ahead in the score cards and on his way to a 10-9 round, but the fight was only 3 minutes into the 25 minute fight. Shogun rocked and stopped Machida within 3 minutes.

There was nothing lucky about it, Shogun threw an overhand, it hit him, he fell. If that is lucky, than any punch that lands ever is lucky.

If Liddell would have landed his uppercut against Rashad, the fight might have been different. If Arlovski didn't do the flying knee, the fight might have been different. If Fedor would have worked/expected the takedown more against Bigfoot, it might have been different.

You can use this excuse for ANY fight, and it doesn't work on any of them, and it doesn't work on Machida vs. Shogun 2 either.
Thats not correct actually!

Sometimes, especially in MMA fights are being decided in a split second. Esecially in MMA and especially in a striking exchange is luck involved, because one punch can change the outcome especially at a weight class as high as 205lbs.

When you take a look back at the fight, it's clear to see, that in excatly the same moment when Machida comes in after the knee strike to deliver his straight left, Shogun starts to throw the overhand right in exactly the same moment as Lyoto.

This is a so called split second which I mentioned earlier. Such a situation can change the outcome of a fight and end an even battle right there, just like it did.

It wasn't a counter striker fro Shogun which delivered the KO blow, it was an exchange where two strikers start to deliver a punch and where one hit's the other and the other one misses.

It's pretty hard to deny that, cause thats exactly what happened.. even if Shogun Fans won't ever accept that and call Shogun strike a counter strike, even though it is more then obviously that it wasn't.

And this situation of course applies to many Knock Outs which we have seen in the past.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:05 PM   #42 (permalink)
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LOL. Neg rep me all you want for citing an OPINION on the matter, but it doesnt change a thing.

Machida fans can be incredibly sensitive.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:05 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
Thats not correct actually!

Sometimes, especially in MMA fights are being decided in a split second. Esecially in MMA and especially in a striking exchange is luck involved, because one punch can change the outcome especially at a weight class as high as 205lbs.

When you take a look back at the fight, it's clear to see, that in excatly the same moment when Machida comes in after the knee strike to deliver his straight left, Shogun starts to throw the overhand right in exactly the same moment as Lyoto.

This is a so called split second which I mentioned earlier. Such a situation can change the outcome of a fight and end an even battle right there, just like it did.

It wasn't a counter striker fro Shogun which delivered the KO blow, it was an exchange where two strikers start to deliver a punch and where one hit's the other and the other one misses.

It's pretty hard to deny that, cause thats exactly what happened.. even if Shogun Fans won't ever accept that and call Shogun strike a counter strike, even though it is more then obviously that it wasn't.

And this situation of course applies to many Knock Outs which we have seen in the past.
That makes no difference, because why do you think Machida's punch would have knocked Shogun out? How do you know that even would have happened? How do you know that even if Machida landed, Shogun would have followed through and hit him anyways while taking Machida's shot? There are far too many variables. You can't say "well, if he would have hit him first then it would be different!", it doesn't work that way, not at all.

If you go by that, I can easily say "if Arlovski's flying knee would have hit Fedor before Fedor's right hand connected, it would have been different", but then I'd be making excuses that don't make any sense.

Shogun dropped Machida and put him away within 3 minutes, there's nothing lucky about it.

Seriously, I like Machida as well but there's a limit to the level of excuses one can use, and saying a punch that Shogun threw to drop Machida landed and dropped Machida (the whole reason Shogun threw the punch) is lucky, is like saying any punch ever that dropped someone is lucky, cause that person could have moved to the left instead of the right, he could of backed up, ducked, he could have done something to avoid the punch but in a split second he didn't and thus the punch was lucky.

It makes no sense and is 100% an excuse that makes no sense whatsoever.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:14 PM   #44 (permalink)
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In case you have missed it, I am gonna repeat myself one last time now. Sometimes fights are being decided in a split second.. especially in striking exchanges in Mixed MArtial Arts.

I won't debate this, cause this is fighting and this is MMA!

Things like this happen and it's far from being an excuse. I never said Shogun doesn't deserve the win or anything more stupid. I am saying that this fight was an even battle until Shogun landed and LYoto didn't.

If you don't think it would have been different when LYoto would have hit with his power punch, then something is wrong with your MMA.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:16 PM   #45 (permalink)
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It's an interesting find but really, it's not all that impressive.
Jeez you guys are a tough crowd: I agree decisioning a guy who you outweigh by 40 lbs (BJ) is not that impressive, anyone who's beaten Bonnar, Franklin, Thiago Silva, M Rua(*), and Rashad is doing something right.

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Saw this mentioned, found it pretty neat. Thought I'd share with you guys here.

BJ Penn - Former LW and WW Champ
Shogun Rua, Rashad Evans, Tito Ortiz, Randy Couture = LHW Champ
Rich Franklin = MW Champ
Randy Couture = HW Champ

Would a victory over Couture give Machida a victory over a former Champion in five weight classes, would he also be the first man to pull off such a feat?
His most impressive win, imo, was his clinical beatdown of Rashad.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:23 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
In case you have missed it, I am gonna repeat myself one last time now. Sometimes fights are being decided in a split second.. especially in striking exchanges in Mixed MArtial Arts.

I won't debate this, cause this is fighting and this is MMA!

Things like this happen and it's far from being an excuse. I never said Shogun doesn't deserve the win or anything more stupid. I am saying that this fight was an even battle until Shogun landed and LYoto didn't.

If you don't think it would have been different when LYoto would have hit with his power punch, then something is wrong with your MMA.
Why would it be different, can you see into an alternate universe and see what happened when Machida hit with the punch? Shogun has an amazing chin, how do you know Shogun wouldn't have just taken the shot and knocked Machida out 20 seconds later? A minute later? Half way through the second round?

The fact is, Shogun threw a punch to drop Machida, it hit and Machida dropped. What "could have", "might have", "what if", does not count or matter, Shogun threw a punch with the intent of dropping Machida, it landed and it dropped Machida, there's no luck whatsoever in that.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:27 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by M.C View Post
Why would it be different, can you see into an alternate universe and see what happened when Machida hit with the punch? Shogun has an amazing chin, how do you know Shogun wouldn't have just taken the shot and knocked Machida out 20 seconds later? A minute later? Half way through the second round?

The fact is, Shogun threw a punch to drop Machida, it hit and Machida dropped. What "could have", "might have", "what if", does not count or matter, Shogun threw a punch with the intent of dropping Machida, it landed and it dropped Machida, there's no luck whatsoever in that.
There is, because at the exactly the same moment Machida threw his punch as well. That means!!! That there is luck involved BEcause no human being in the world could time a split second punch!

Perhaps Shogun is supernatural.. I really don't know, after all he looked like a machine in there.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:39 PM   #48 (permalink)
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There is, because at the exactly the same moment Machida threw his punch as well. That means!!! That there is luck involved BEcause no human being in the world could time a split second punch!

Perhaps Shogun is supernatural.. I really don't know, after all he looked like a machine in there.
Lol okay Bobby.

You win, you're right, the only reason why Shogun's punch that he threw to drop Machida actually dropped Machida, is cause he was lucky.

From now on, I'll be saying Machida got lucky against Rashad because Machida's punch very well could have not landed, if Rashad had reacted a split second earlier he would have moved to the right or left and avoided Machida's initial punch that rocked him.

It makes as much sense.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:43 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Lol okay Bobby.

You win, you're right, the only reason why Shogun's punch that he threw to drop Machida actually dropped Machida, is cause he was lucky.

From now on, I'll be saying Machida got lucky against Rashad because Machida's punch very well could have not landed, if Rashad had reacted a split second earlier he would have moved to the right or left and avoided Machida's initial punch that rocked him.

It makes as much sense.
lol alright, with coming at me like this you clearly show me that you don't want to ((thats what I think personally)) or that you just don't know what you are talking about.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:46 PM   #50 (permalink)
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lol alright, with coming at me like this you clearly show me that you don't want to ((thats what I think personally)) or that you just don't know what you are talking about.
I'm not coming at you at all, I'm looking at it from your view. Punches that are thrown and land are lucky, this is what you are saying. If that's the case, Machida was lucky he beat Rashad, Fedor is lucky he beat Arlovski, etc.

I'm simply seeing your side of it and going by your logic. If this logic does not make sense, that's because you're seeing it from a view that's going against Machida rather than for. I'm sure that logic is nice and comfy when aiding a debate for Machida, but feels rather ridiculous when going against him.

In reality, the excuse/logic you are using is completely ridiculous for all situations.
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