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Old 05-02-2011, 08:35 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by KillerShark1985 View Post
His striking is his only A class attribute imo, his movement sucks, clinch can't recall seeing much of it but you can't just assume its going to be any good it an unknown, TD's are good, not world class but no a weak part of this skill set, Ground game ok could do with seeing more of it before casting real judgment but first impressions "what a let down".

You need more than just elite level striking to be considered P4P top level these days, and he has not proved that, I would compare him in many ways to Shogun but I think Shogun back in Pride was much superior on a P4P scale, I think you know how I rated Shogun now even after the victory over Machida, I think you know I never considered him the No.1 LHW and in fact believed he would fall short to a number of current top LWH's well on a P4P scale comparison right now thats how I rate Aldo against other P4P top rated fighters.

I have been borderline on him before, thinking we really need to see more of his skill set before we can make a credible shout for a P4P top class rating, but all we saw at UFC 129 was his elite striking only been fractionally above another top striker, when you think Silva you see striking miles ahead of other elite strikers hence why the P4P status swings in his favor, Aldo does not share than dominance, so unlike Silva his striking alone wont seal his top P4P status.

But still he has a level of striking that could put him in the P4P top list on a MMA scale if the rest of his game is equal to making him an elite all round fighter, and the other day he fell well short of showing that.

I believe Edgar is quicker, has better movement, better wrestling and could take Aldo down and smash him up to a decision or sub him. I think Penn is still P4P a better fighter than Aldo easily.
Aldo's movement is excellent. His movement and timing are both excellent. The other night, Jose displayed some of the finest head movement I have seen in MMA yet. He doesn't have to be world class in every aspect of MMA to be considered a p4p great. You have to bare in mind the fact that he was ill for this fight and I'd say, around 65 percent healthy for the fight. This is no excuse, he looked notably off form the other night and clearly wasn't his usual self, yet he was still impressive. I agree about his ground game, it was underwhelming and I wasn't impressed.

I don't know why you never considered Shogun a truly great fighter, because he was. Probably to date, the greatest LHW fighter there has ever been.

You're right about the Anderson/Aldo comparison. He's obviously not on Spiders level when it comes to the striking, but I don't think that this means he can never be a p4p great and I don't think Edgar would beat him.

I think he has much better striking than Edgar (who was almost out boxed and KO'd by Gray Maynard of all people). He's the better, more diverse striker and I believe the quicker one. His TDD is some of the very best in MMA. Edgar would have a very hard time time taking Aldo down and keeping him down. In the fifth round of the Hominick fight, Aldo was on the brink of exhaustion, I don't think it's fair to criticise and judge his TDD and scrambling ability based on that round alone, when it has consistently looked amazing.

Note to Sambo De Amgio, that's how you sensibly debate with another member on the forum.
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Old 05-02-2011, 08:56 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mckeever View Post
Aldo's movement is excellent. His movement and timing are both excellent. The other night, Jose displayed some of the finest head movement I have seen in MMA yet. He doesn't have to be world class in every aspect of MMA to be considered a p4p great. You have to bare in mind the fact that he was ill for this fight and I'd say, around 65 percent healthy for the fight. This is no excuse, he looked notably off form the other night and clearly wasn't his usual self, yet he was still impressive. I agree about his ground game, it was underwhelming and I wasn't impressed.

I don't know why you never considered Shogun a truly great fighter, because he was. Probably to date, the greatest LHW fighter there has ever been.

You're right about the Anderson/Aldo comparison. He's obviously not on Spiders level when it comes to the striking, but I don't think that this means he can never be a p4p great and I don't think Edgar would beat him.

I think he has much better striking than Edgar (who was almost out boxed and KO'd by Gray Maynard of all people). He's the better, more diverse striker and I believe the quicker one. His TDD is some of the very best in MMA. Edgar would have a very hard time time taking Aldo down and keeping him down. In the fifth round of the Hominick fight, Aldo was on the brink of exhaustion, I don't think it's fair to criticise and judge his TDD and scrambling ability based on that round alone, when it has consistently looked amazing.

Note to Sambo De Amgio, that's how you sensibly debate with another member on the forum.
Maynards stand up is so under rated that you would not believe, not the best out there in a action packed division where every aspect of MMA reaches world class over multiple opponents like the LW division, but good enough to hold out against any of the best and surprise them and way better than your average well rounded fighter.

I left Maynard out of this Aldo argument and used Edgar since he is more the likely to actually be a natural FW, but if Aldo was to move up to LW I would not give him a prayer against Maynard.

Edgar on the other hand I think would have the advantage on Aldo in his own back yard @ FW hence why I used Edgar, sure Aldo would have a punches chance to catch Edgar like any elite striker of his level, but 70/30, 65/45 at best I give that fight to Edgar based on the rest of his skill set, especially the wrestling advantage he has to play with.

Seriously I hope Maynard beats Edgar, and I think he will still and if you recall the sig bet we had that was never resolved the last time they faced each other I think should still stand, because lets face it if Maynard becomes Champ, or ether way that fight goes for that matter, no chance are we going to see Maynard vs Edgar 4 in such a stacked division for a very very long time, Frankies best option for another title fight will be to drop to 145 where they would instantly let him face Aldo for the title.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:08 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Maynards stand up is so under rated that you would not believe, not the best out there in a action packed division where every aspect of MMA reaches world class over multiple opponents like the LW division, but good enough to hold out against any of the best and surprise them and way better than your average well rounded fighter.

I left Maynard out of this Aldo argument and used Edgar since he is more the likely to actually be a natural FW, but if Aldo was to move up to LW I would not give him a prayer against Maynard.

Edgar on the other hand I think would have the advantage on Aldo in his own back yard @ FW hence why I used Edgar, sure Aldo would have a punches chance to catch Edgar like any elite striker of his level, but 70/30, 65/45 at best I give that fight to Edgar based on the rest of his skill set, especially the wrestling advantage he has to play with.

Seriously I hope Maynard beats Edgar, and I think he will still and if you recall the sig bet we had that was never resolved the last time they faced each other I think should still stand, because lets face it if Maynard becomes Champ, or ether way that fight goes for that matter, no chance are we going to see Maynard vs Edgar 4 in such a stacked division for a very very long time, Frankies best option for another title fight will be to drop to 145 where they would instantly let him face Aldo for the title.
I'm up for the sigbet on Edgar/Maynard. I don't think Gray's boxing is under rated at all, I think people see it for what it is, rather sloppy, slow and predictable. His fight with Nate Diaz was just horrible, I can't erase that fight from my memory.

I see Gray Maynard as very comparable to Josh Koscheck, a one dimensional wrestler, with rudimentary stand up skills and decent power. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think you're under rating Aldo's defensive wrestling big time and I believe Edgar and Maynard would have fits trying to take him down and keep him there. Both of them get out struck badly if Aldo keeps it on the feet in my opinion.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
 
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I'm up for the sigbet on Edgar/Maynard. I don't think Gray's boxing is under rated at all, I think people see it for what it is, rather sloppy, slow and predictable. His fight with Nate Diaz was just horrible, I can't erase that fight from my memory.

I see Gray Maynard as very comparable to Josh Koscheck, a one dimensional wrestler, with rudimentary stand up skills and decent power. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think you're under rating Aldo's defensive wrestling big time and I believe Edgar and Maynard would have fits trying to take him down and keep him there. Both of them get out struck badly if Aldo keeps it on the feet in my opinion.
I think your neglecting the last fight between Maynard/Edgar. Before it I would have completely agreed with you about Maynard's striking but it was incredibly evident in that fight that he has done some extensive work on his stand up. Maynard looked like 10X the fighter that fought Nate. I think Edgar wins the rematch but your heavily underrating Maynards striking if your looking at his last performance.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:29 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I'm up for the sigbet on Edgar/Maynard. I don't think Gray's boxing is under rated at all, I think people see it for what it is, rather sloppy, slow and predictable. His fight with Nate Diaz was just horrible, I can't erase that fight from my memory.

I see Gray Maynard as very comparable to Josh Koscheck, a one dimensional wrestler, with rudimentary stand up skills and decent power. Nothing more, nothing less.

I think you're under rating Aldo's defensive wrestling big time and I believe Edgar and Maynard would have fits trying to take him down and keep him there. Both of them get out struck badly if Aldo keeps it on the feet in my opinion.
Ok mate, sig bet is still on, I would make it official by posting it in that new section I have seen around where members challenge each other, except I can't find that section, maybe you know whee it is can can do the honors.

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I think your neglecting the last fight between Maynard/Edgar. Before it I would have completely agreed with you about Maynard's striking but it was incredibly evident in that fight that he has done some extensive work on his stand up. Maynard looked like 10X the fighter that fought Nate. I think Edgar wins the rematch but your heavily underrating Maynards striking if your looking at his last performance.
There are other notable fights where he has impressed in the stand up, Florian notably some of the top Muay Thai in the LW division had nothing on him, his first fight with Edgar way back when he gave him his first and only defeat, he was having the better of the striking on top of winning the TD's to seal the Unanimous Decision with a clean 30-27 sweep from all 3 judges, its been hit and miss during the times he chose to consecrate more on using his wrestling to win fights, but I believe he will once again when needed find the correct balance of using his striking combined with is wrestling to stake his rightful claim to be classed as a very elite well rounded fighter with great wrestling and well above average striking.

The guy almost has the Skill Set of GSP (minus the kicks but he does have good Knee attacks) like GSP he doe keep wining but I still think he could improve his strategic plans towards neutralizing his opponents like GSP does before you can consider him as great a fighter, oh and he needs a belt to signify his undefeated record.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:37 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Ok mate, sig bet is still on, I would make it official by posting it in that new section I have seen around where members challenge each other, except I can't find that section, maybe you know whee it is can can do the honors.



There are other notable fights where he has impressed in the stand up, Florian notably some of the top Muay Thai in the LW division had nothing on him, his first fight with Edgar way back when he gave him his first and only defeat, he was having the better of the striking on top of winning the TD's to seal the Unanimous Decision with a clean 30-27 sweep from all 3 judges, its been hit and miss during the times he chose to consecrate more on using his wrestling to win fights, but I believe he will once again when needed find the correct balance of using his striking combined with is wrestling to stake his rightful claim to be classed as a very elite well rounded fighter with great wrestling and well above average striking.
Not sure where that section is myself mate, I'll just PM you or you PM me nearer the date of the event and we'll sort it out that way.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:43 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Not sure where that section is myself mate, I'll just PM you or you PM me nearer the date of the event and we'll sort it out that way.
ok no worries.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:48 PM   #38 (permalink)
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maynard,edgar,miller and melendez would bully aldo bad with their wrestling alone, maynard has improved his striking heaps but i think you guys are forgetting that edgar was baited into a brawl with maynard not his traditional smart in and out type style that he uses. edgar can be much much better when he follows his gameplan for all 5 rounds
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:08 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Aldo is probably one if not THE toughest guy out there. What he has been through in life already.. and now he's at the top. A Sickness can't stop this man!

Aldo will certainly be one of the greatest ever!

I was even very impressed with his head movement and Boxing overall against such a tough opponent in Hominick who possess really good Hands.

Mendez is gonna be a great test for him as well. The Wrestling and everything Great fight!
I'll second all of that. I was impressed by Aldos head movement and ability to just slip and slide away from the jab most of the time.

Although I will be interested to see how Mendez does on the TDs (Aldo surely needs to learn to work better off his back). Over 5 rounds though, surely Aldo is going to have many moments in the stand-up and let's face it, Aldos stand-up is light years ahead of Mendez.
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Old 05-03-2011, 01:27 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Aldo's hands and head movement were legendary in that fight but I was also extremely impressed with the explosiveness of his take-downs.
+ 1, I was surprised how quick he had Hominick on his back, he has very explosive take-downs.
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