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Old 05-02-2011, 11:35 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mmaswe82 View Post
You're not toally off with everything you said, and ofcourse noone knows what would happen in GSP vs higher weight top fighters. But to say GSP's striking is overrated because of one bad fight is just wrong. It sure is true what the say that MMA-fans just change opinion based on the latest fight they saw. Re-watch some earlier GSP fights and tell me he has bad striking. The guy out-struck Alves one of the most devestating Muay-thai strikers in the world at WW, just to mention one example.
Well then I ask you what fights have shown that GSP's striking is real good? I'm not saying it is terrible. I am just saying many people including myself may have overrated over the years.

Does peppering Jon Fitch do it?
Does jabbing Koscheck prove he is a real good stand up fighter?
Does taking down and jabbing Alves prove he is real good there?
Does getting demolished by Penn on the feet and needing to take him down each time prove it?
Does getting KO'd by the great Matt Serra..then in the 2nd fight having to finish him with repeated knees to the body prove it?

Point is, where is this great striking? Sure he is technical, I can see that. But what strikers, or even decent strikers has he out-struck? When was the last time he really hurt someone with a punch? Sure jabbing Kos in the eye 500 times without much resistance will add up...but he doesn't hurt anyone with his striking.

He just had Shields...the worst striker in the division stand in front of him for 5 rounds and he couldn't do that much. The sad thing is he was trying to finish. But all he could come up with is a looping crappy right hook.

It is ok, I understand GSP fans will not want to accept reality. But fact is he has jabb'd his way through even crappy stand up fighters...and wanted no part of actual strikers. I am no hater. I am just saying I think we all need to slow down when we act like he has some of the best striking in the division. There is no factual evidence to say he does.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:49 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Well then I ask you what fights have shown that GSP's striking is real good? I'm not saying it is terrible. I am just saying many people including myself may have overrated over the years.

Does peppering Jon Fitch do it?
Does jabbing Koscheck prove he is a real good stand up fighter?
Does taking down and jabbing Alves prove he is real good there?
Does getting demolished by Penn on the feet and needing to take him down each time prove it?
Does getting KO'd by the great Matt Serra..then in the 2nd fight having to finish him with repeated knees to the body prove it?

Point is, where is this great striking? Sure he is technical, I can see that. But what strikers, or even decent strikers has he out-struck? When was the last time he really hurt someone with a punch? Sure jabbing Kos in the eye 500 times without much resistance will add up...but he doesn't hurt anyone with his striking.

He just had Shields...the worst striker in the division stand in front of him for 5 rounds and he couldn't do that much. The sad thing is he was trying to finish. But all he could come up with is a looping crappy right hook.

It is ok, I understand GSP fans will not want to accept reality. But fact is he has jabb'd his way through even crappy stand up fighters...and wanted no part of actual strikers. I am no hater. I am just saying I think we all need to slow down when we act like he has some of the best striking in the division. There is no factual evidence to say he does.
Well it's a matter of opinion I guess but I think being able to technically jab your way to victory is impressive. Striking-wise he has mostly showcased his boxing lately, and I agree he does lack power or will to commit to punches but other than that I think he's look very impressive. Busting up Koscheck with jabs even tho it was boring it was impressive. really when I watch him fight Alves I'd say he was winning on the feet. He wasn't really able to controll Alves on the ground wich to me was a surprize but he did beat him handily standing wich in itself IMO proves what a dangerous striker he is.
Sure Serra knocked him out but that could happen to anyone and IMO that was a fluke. That leaves Penn among the strikers he has fought somewhat recently & I don't remember that fight 100% & need to re-watch it but if Penn did indeed beat him so badly on th feet I would more credit Penns outstanding boxing than GSP being bad.
I get your point tho, depending on how you rated his striking in the first place he might be "over-rated" but I have still to see a moment where he doesn't impress me technically, even tho he is very boring.
Not to mention all the bad to medicre strikers he has demolished earlier in his career. Really what convinces me is the Alves fight. I though he would get wrecked standing, but actually won.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:58 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Jabbing your way to victory isn't that impressive over the likes of Kos or Shields.

Do it if you can win. But only reason he can sit and jab all night is because these guys suck at throwing hands. Kos has power, yea of a wild wrestler. His stand up is still average at very best. Shields has the worst stand up in the division. So I am just saying he can't do that vs. a real striker...he can take them down though.

Nothing to me proves he can strike with actual strikers. Should he? No. Wrestle them. But all i am saying is GSP isn't a great striker. He is a good striker who can jab fighters with poor stand up skills.

Again...if you would read my post...I am not saying GSP is bad. So please don't act like I said that. Yea, Penn's striking is real good. GSPs striking couldn't keep up. So that must mean GSP isn't "real good" on the feet....right?
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:05 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post

Again...if you would read my post...I am not saying GSP is bad. So please don't act like I said that. Yea, Penn's striking is real good. GSPs striking couldn't keep up. So that must mean GSP isn't "real good" on the feet....right?
GSP easily outstruck Penn in their second fight, not sure what you mean by he couldn't keep up.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:07 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:10 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Comparing Georges to Pacquiao is a mistake. There are very few fighters who, like Pacquiao, are able to build a successful, prolific career while taking risks in fights. There are a few guys at the top in MMA who have done that, but not many.

It's worth taking into consideration how many ways there are to lose in MMA. As a fighter, its important to keep an opponents skillset in mind, and that was what the Shields fight was about for Georges. Don't go to the ground, out of respect for Shields' skills on the mat, and that paid off.

I'm not sure why you had the expectation that this fight was going to be a barn-burner. No one I talked to before thought that was going to happen. What it was going to be, though, was a test for St. Pierre. Will he try to push his matwork against perhaps the top grappler at 170 pounds? No, he gameplanned effectively and avoided the major gameplanning concern that his camp had.

It's not an issue of excitement. It's an issue of intelligence. The at best, the two are unrelated; at worst, the former makes the latter impossible.

There are exciting fights, then there are important fights. Sometimes the two overlap. Sometimes they don't.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Jabbing your way to victory isn't that impressive over the likes of Kos or Shields.

Do it if you can win. But only reason he can sit and jab all night is because these guys suck at throwing hands. Kos has power, yea of a wild wrestler. His stand up is still average at very best. Shields has the worst stand up in the division. So I am just saying he can't do that vs. a real striker...he can take them down though.

Nothing to me proves he can strike with actual strikers. Should he? No. Wrestle them. But all i am saying is GSP isn't a great striker. He is a good striker who can jab fighters with poor stand up skills.

Again...if you would read my post...I am not saying GSP is bad. So please don't act like I said that. Yea, Penn's striking is real good. GSPs striking couldn't keep up. So that must mean GSP isn't "real good" on the feet....right?
Alright, fair enough m8 only example that falls outside your theory is the Alves fight but other than that I have to agree. Also I really need to rewatch the Penn-fight.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm not sure why you had the expectation that this fight was going to be a barn-burner. No one I talked to before thought that was going to happen. What it was going to be, though, was a test for St. Pierre. Will he try to push his matwork against perhaps the top grappler at 170 pounds? No, he gameplanned effectively and avoided the major gameplanning concern that his camp had.
No. I never thought it would be a barn burner. WHat I thought is Jake would go for TDs more, since that is his only way of winning. I thought, if this was a 5 round stand up fight...that GSP just might get a finish for once because Shields has the striking of a TUF fighter.

But no. Yet again. Even though Shields could not get it to the ground...GSP didn't finish where he was supposed to be the much superior fighter.

He can fight to win. Would you not say they are all important? It is just sort of sad that he can't display his skills to show how much of a better striker he is than Shields.

He plays down to his competition. Smothering them with wrestling when they have no BJJ advantage over him.

While Diaz and Silva are on longer streaks, while beating guys in dominating fashion whether on the floor, against the cage, or right in the middle of the cage. Whether it is rear-naked, armbar, punch, knees, front kick...they dominate the opponents they should and display their skillsets.

There are cautious athletes in every sport...there are entertaining athletes in every sport. There is no right way to play the game as long as you win. I just appreciate the show Silva and Diaz put on...and the balls they have to test themselves...while still winning at a rapid pace.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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yeah, gsp has been kinda boring for a while now but i do think he really tried to come out for this fight and finish mainly from him throwing that overhand right so many times which he never did before in other fights. i think his injury really hampered his performance for most of the fight and you could tell during teh conversation gsp was having with this cornermen. to be fair he did stun shield s couple of times before his eye injury.

i think gsp is fully aware of people's perceptions of him as a boring fighter and he has been trying to change his style a bit. he added the overhand right into his standup game for this fight and i think if adds really good hook he will be scary for most guys in the ww division.

but the event as a whole was pretty darn good imo. can you say flying triangle?? that was a sick submission.

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You're right OP and epic first post. GSP is a boring, decision fighter and has been for the past 2 years or so. He has lost his killer instinct and never tries hard enough to finish fights (even though he is physically capable of doing so, but his head says no).

Toxic you haven't even watched the Shields fight yet have you? It was an embarrassing performance from both men.

GSP is likely to fight Nick Diaz next.
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
No. I never thought it would be a barn burner. WHat I thought is Jake would go for TDs more, since that is his only way of winning. I thought, if this was a 5 round stand up fight...that GSP just might get a finish for once because Shields has the striking of a TUF fighter.

But no. Yet again. Even though Shields could not get it to the ground...GSP didn't finish where he was supposed to be the much superior fighter.

He can fight to win. Would you not say they are all important? It is just sort of sad that he can't display his skills to show how much of a better striker he is than Shields.

He plays down to his competition. Smothering them with wrestling when they have no BJJ advantage over him.
These are the kind of comments that I really don't understand. Gameplanning is "playing down to his competition."

If I were standing across the cage from Rafael Mendes, I'd do everything in my power to keep that fight off the mat. If I were in a cage with Floyd Mayweather, I'd do everything in my power to get it there. I don't think of it as "smothering someone without a BJJ advantage," I think of it as "not being an idiot."


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While Diaz and Silva are on longer streaks, while beating guys in dominating fashion whether on the floor, against the cage, or right in the middle of the cage. Whether it is rear-naked, armbar, punch, knees, front kick...they dominate the opponents they should and display their skillsets.
Diaz is a great fighter, but he really hasn't been fighting competition where he's run the risk of being outclassed in a particular area. I mean, he's not staring down guys like Shields or Hardy or Alves. He just isn't.

I have a lot of respect for Diaz, but there's a difference between fighting Evangelista Cyborg or Frank Shamrock and fighting B.J. Penn or Jon Fitch.

As for Silva, he fights conservatively when he has to, and he's gotten a ton of flack for that. It's also worth noting that there are points in his career where he's fought stupidly (sometimes he's still managed to win; he's been punished for it a few times, especially the Takase fight).

Refusing to engage Maia and Leites was a legitimate gameplan, though we still had to listen to people talk about how much of a sissy he was for not chasing them down. I respect Anderson for being a smart fighter. Of course, his opponents tend to play into his skillset a lot more than Georges' do. That has nothing to do with one being riskier than the other.


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There are cautious athletes in every sport...there are entertaining athletes in every sport. There is no right way to play the game as long as you win. I just appreciate the show Silva and Diaz put on...and the balls they have to test themselves...while still winning at a rapid pace.
That's totally fine. I just don't understand faulting Georges for fighting intelligently. Are people saying that he should have actively chased Shields and given up takedowns, as a result?

I don't understand, because I don't see a reason for Georges to fight any differently than the way that he did. He wanted to keep from ending up on that mat, and part of that is choosing to strike conservatively and not rush opponents and get overconfident. I have a lot of respect for Georges to sticking to his gameplan, and I'm sure his coaches are happy about it, as well.
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