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Old 05-02-2011, 12:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Toxic - I agree with most of your point...but I strongly disagree with one of them

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Originally Posted by Toxic View Post
GSP would smash Diaz, and likely beat Anderson and Machida. Thing with Jones is your starting to get a pretty significant size advantage. Where Machida is a small LHW, Jones is not, were talking likely 25-30 pounds difference on fight night. Being that Jones is a good wrestler in his own right with a signifigant size and strength advantage its hard to say he would lose.

I think you just need to learn to examine fights yourself. Stylistically if you weren't expecting GSP to jab Shields apart all night then you were just ignoring the match up. This seemed a little likely all along. Personally I expected Shields to gas again leasing to a late finish but I hardly find the results surprising.

Great fighters win don't go for it that is crap. Great fighters WIN. Entertaining fighters go for it but usually with mixed results.
Hello Toxic - Wow, you have a lot of posts....but I imagine most administrators of forums do. And I'll also admit that I'm sure you know more about the UFC fighters than I do.

As I mentioned in my 1st post....I have seen MUCH MORE WEC & Strikeforce fights than UFC fights. Although I've certainly seen some of the UFC cards....especially when I didn't have to fork over an extra $60 to Comcast (where customer service is an oxymoron).

And you very well might be right that GSP would crush Nick Diaz. I have seen a lot of Diaz fights & 1st of all...he looks like a skinny kid. He doesn't look very muscular. That type of boxing he does where his punches are seldom thrown with wicked intent (although he throws a lot of them....probably to keep opponents at range & the accumulation does matter over a long fight) is unusual.

It actually surprises me that he beat a lot of the guys he faced. Cyborg landed many vicious leg kicks on Diaz (like the one's Aldo crippled Faber with)....eventually Diaz started checking them with his knees & got Cyborg going backwards (where kicks can't do much damage). I remember one of the announcers (Miletich) talking about Cyborg fighting like he was trying to kill somebody in that fight.

Cyborg was throwing some bombs at Diaz too. Anyway...Cyborg trips Diaz & gets top position with under a minute to go in the 2nd round I think....& Diaz with only seconds to go in the round gets him to tap via armbar.

I think Diaz's best attributes are his cardio (does triathlons), his chin (seen him walk through some hard punches & knees), I think he is also a smart fighter & just has that will to win. I also think I read that he has one of only 3 black belts that Gracie has handed out.

Saw him fight Daley who was a really good striker & could throw really hard bombs....Diaz ends up ground & pounding this guy out.

All the other B.S. around him & his brother I don't care for.

I'm sure you're aware of how Diaz fights...so what I'm saying is nothing new.

I understand & agree with what you say about a Jon Jones vs. GSP fight. Of the most recent fighters getting into the spotlight...I think Jones & Aldo are the cream of the crop.

I do think Silva & Machido could (& I emphasize Could) beat GSP (although I say Silva just because I'm always hearing how great he is & how he may be in the running for top pound-for-pound guy). But I think I also read that he was losing his last fight badly....& his opponent did something dumb to lose.

Was that the one where Silva did the first MMA "Crane" kick? And Machida's pretty tough...& has that unusual style of fighting....he might do the "Crane Kick" to GSP like he did to Couture (which I think was the 2nd "Crane" kick victory in UFC history)....lol.

I do disagree with you about what you said what makes the greater fighter. And I'll use a present example.

Who is the greater fighter...Mayweather or Pacquiao. Mayweather is 41-0. Pacquiao is 52-3-2. Many say Floyd has cherry picked his fights to keep his undefeated record. But he is undefeated. But his rise through the ranks were via a different trip than Pacquiao's.

But the bottom line about which one of those fighters IMHO is this. Pacquiao has a much better record for taking on all comers...the best fighters in every weight division he has been in...he has taken on. Not so for Mayweather.

And Mayweather is more of a defensive fighter. He likes the fights to go where he seldom gets hit...because I'll admit he is a great defensive fighter...and hits his opponent enough times to win...but most of his fights are just not that exciting. And ALL of Pacquiao's are!

Did you see the snooze fest fight with Alexander & Bradley?

I don't know how old you are Toxic. But Hagler vs. Hearns, Sugar Ray Leonard vs. Roberto Duran....any mix of these fighters was must see. Because they fought like Lions....they mixed it up. Did you see any of the Ward - Gatti fights? How about the recent Ortiz - Berto fight? How about the 2nd Williams vs. Martinez fight?

THIS IS WHAT THE FANS WANT....THEY WANT EXCITEMENT - THEY WANT TO BE ELECTRIFIED. THEY WANT "THE RUMBLE IN THE JUNGLE" & "THE THRILLA IN MANILLA".

I'm certainly not saying that Ward or Gatti were as good a fighter as Mayweather....but these guys were WARRIORS.

I guess the real bottom line to this is this: I think that although Mayweather is undefeated....Pacquiao is the greater fighter/champion.

Do folks here agree or disagree with that?

Oops...sorry I strayed into boxing from MMA...but it was just for analogy sake's.

Wow - I haven't typed this much on my computer in a long time. I think it's going to be a long break before I post again....so for the folks who don't like long one's....don't worry....I'll just be reading what others have to say for a while.

P.S. - I wish they would make that Mayweather vs. Pacquiao fight. I'm a big Pacquiao fan...& even after what I have said about him....I must admit....he might lose to Mayweather....but I'd love to see Pacquiao do to "Money Mayweather" what he did to Hatton! THE END
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Old 05-02-2011, 12:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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These are the kind of comments that I really don't understand. Gameplanning is "playing down to his competition."

If I were standing across the cage from Rafael Mendes, I'd do everything in my power to keep that fight off the mat. If I were in a cage with Floyd Mayweather, I'd do everything in my power to get it there. I don't think of it as "smothering someone without a BJJ advantage," I think of it as "not being an idiot."

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Um, perhaps you didn't understand me at all.

Sure, don't go to the ground with Shields. But Shields couldn't get it there. And for a "great striker" like GSP...standing 5 rounds with one of the worst....I'd of enjoyed GSP displaying that advantage.

But, we saw him jab and throw sloppy over-hand rights while Shields tagged him a couple times.

Anderson wouldn't want to go to the ground with Shields either. But while it was standing he would look to finish the much less striker.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:06 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Um, perhaps you didn't understand me at all.

Sure, don't go to the ground with Shields. But Shields couldn't get it there. And for a "great striker" like GSP...standing 5 rounds with one of the worst....I'd of enjoyed GSP displaying that advantage.

But, we saw him jab and throw sloppy over-hand rights while Shields tagged him a couple times.

Anderson wouldn't want to go to the ground with Shields either. But while it was standing he would look to finish the much less striker.
Funny that you bring up Anderson Silva because he had 2 very similar fights against Leites and Maia where he did everything he could to avoid the ground game and did very little to look for the finish.

And it's odd that you imply that GSP did in fact not look for the finish when you earlier state that he was making heavy use of an over-hand right, a finishing blow, rather than just his jab, like the Koscheck fight, which shows that he had changes his boxing repertoire and was indeed "looking" for the finish quite a bit.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:25 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
Um, perhaps you didn't understand me at all.

Sure, don't go to the ground with Shields. But Shields couldn't get it there. And for a "great striker" like GSP...standing 5 rounds with one of the worst....I'd of enjoyed GSP displaying that advantage.

But, we saw him jab and throw sloppy over-hand rights while Shields tagged him a couple times.

Anderson wouldn't want to go to the ground with Shields either. But while it was standing he would look to finish the much less striker.
I'm not sure why everyone thinks that Shields' striking is bad. He's been stopped once in his career. He's fought some serious strikers and managed to keep from being knocked out (largely by forcing the fight to the mat, but still a significant feat, to me).

I think that Shields' boxing is seriously underrated. It's not as though Shields can't strike. Again, it's that he's not an idiot. Am I going to stand with Dan Henderson? Robbie Lawler? Martin Kampmann? Of course not. If I had a high level BJJ blackbelt, I would take those fights to the mat and try to win them there, too.

Anderson wouldn't look to go to the ground with anyone, at this point. But he has overcommitted on his feet a couple of times in his career and been put in very, very rough spots as a result. Look at the Travis Lutter fight.

He consciously avoided going to the mat against Maia and Leites, and got hammered in the press. "He would look to finish a much less striker..." unless that striker was as bad on his feet as Thales Leites. Frankly, I give Shields more credit standing up than I give Leites or Maia, especially after rewatching Leites' fight with Kampmann or Maia's fight with Marquardt.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Boring main event, yes. Boring card overall, no...
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Boring main event, yes. Boring card overall, no...
Over all I think it was the most exciting card since UFC 116.
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Old 05-02-2011, 01:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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GSP has become a very boring fighter. Its a fact and theres no need to be in denial or try and belittle people for pointing out the obvious. Ask any neutral fan what they think of his performances and they'll tell you the truth his fights are quite boring.

This opinion doesn't make me a "meathead" or a noob. I'm just being real.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by morninglightmt View Post
Funny that you bring up Anderson Silva because he had 2 very similar fights against Leites and Maia where he did everything he could to avoid the ground game and did very little to look for the finish.

And it's odd that you imply that GSP did in fact not look for the finish when you earlier state that he was making heavy use of an over-hand right, a finishing blow, rather than just his jab, like the Koscheck fight, which shows that he had changes his boxing repertoire and was indeed "looking" for the finish quite a bit.
Did you wantch the Leites fight? How are you supposed to finish a guy who flops on his back each time you get closE? At least Shields at there and fought and didn't pull an Aoki or Leites.

The Maia fight...I'm not sure. That was just a weird fight and a bizarre performance. Not sure what Anderson was doing there.

Yea, that is why I say GSP's striking is overrated. The best he could do to try and finish was a sloppy overhand right that he threw a bunch. I guess you could call that trying to finish...which he failed at.

Jon Fitch gets crapped on by everyone for not finishing fights. Well why doesn't the champ and a top 2 P4P fighter get crapped on then? Why should he get a pass? He has way more skills than Jon Fitch...yet other than a corner throwing in teh towel he hasn't actually finished anyone since Matt freaking Serra. And all that happened there was Serra turtling up while GSP just threw knees. Was basically like throwing in the towel. For a black belt, with wrestling, cardio, and supposed great striking...he sure does find it hard to finish anyone with a sub or KO/TKO.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:04 PM   #29 (permalink)
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GSP has become a very boring fighter. Its a fact and theres no need to be in denial or try and belittle people for pointing out the obvious. Ask any neutral fan what they think of his performances and they'll tell you the truth his fights are quite boring.

This opinion doesn't make me a "meathead" or a noob. I'm just being real.
Truth.

It is like no one is allowed to not enjoy a GSP fight. When it is just facts. There is no other champ who has so many boring title defenses. Perhaps he is just too good and makes one-sided...well then he should go for a finish and actually get it once every now and then.

If he fights Diaz, he may win via laying on top of Diaz. But he won't finish Diaz...that is for sure.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by IronMan View Post
I'm not sure why everyone thinks that Shields' striking is bad.

Unbelievable.

If you have to ask...then you must not watch the fights. His striking is terrible...and everyone including Dana and Joe Rogan understand that.

Like was said during the prefight media...Shields is great at what he does. Wrestling and BJJ is a great combo to have.

He may not get finished. Like in the Hendo fight...he does have a solid chin. But that means nothing as far as his striking skills go.

But ok, I will leave the sugar-coating and and exaggerating for the GSP lovers.
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