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Old 05-04-2011, 06:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by demoman993 View Post
So what I'm reading, correct me if I'm wrong of course but it sounds like you don't respect GSP. I'm gonna take that with a grain of salt as I think you're trying to be more dramatic than realistic.

GSP has dominated Jake Shields, BJ Penn, Matt Hughes, Jon Fitch, Josh Koscheck, Dan Hardy, Sean Sherk, Thiago Alves, Matt Serra, Mayhem and the list goes on. List to me how many times he has been in any form of trouble in any of these fights?

Shields? Never once in trouble for 1 second of that fight.
Fitch? Ditto
Hardy? Ditto
Alves? Ditto
Serra 2? Ditto
BJ 2? Ditto
Hughes 2 & 3? Ditto
Koscheck 1 & 2? Ditto

You have to go back to his loss to Matt Serra, loss to Matt Hughes and close decision over BJ to find any times where GSP was in any sort of trouble.

His loss to Serra was admittedly arrogance and Serra made him pay for it. He realized that someone could actually hit him hard enough to give him the TKO. BJ busted him up pretty bad in their first fight and he made adjustments for their 2nd fight so that didn't happen again. Hughes submitted him in his first title shot and he made adjustments to keep himself out of that position again.

We're not talking about an undefeated fighter who is protecting his record, we're talking about a guy who has learned from his mistakes and has vowed to not make that mistake again. You have to credit a guy for making a gameplan and sticking to it. Most of us would go out there with a gameplan and as soon as someone cracked us with a good shot we'd go into survival/brawl mode, its a natural human reaction.

Bas pointed out that GSP did look sluggish from the start but whatever he made it work. Everyone that has faught before knows what those days/fights feel like, its a very helpless feeling to not have you jump or energy level that you expect and are used to. The only reason I wish GSP would be finishing guys more often is to shut up the haters on the forums and in the crowd. I'm perfectly happen watching him completely neutralize Jake Shields' ground game, Dan Hardy's striking game, etc. That's coming from a Floyd Mayweather, Bernard Hopkins fan so you can/should take my opinion with a grain of salt as well.
I will say again. I do not respect GSP because he CAN finish opponents but chooses not to out of FEAR. Fear that he will lose his prestege, fear that he might just get hit hard, fear that maybe everyone won't look up to him if he loses. I don't respect GSP for having every advantage but being too afraid to use them.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:26 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That's fair enough, I can admit my frustration sometimes when he doesn't go in for the kill. I wouldn't go as far as not respecting him for it but everyone is entitled to their point of view.
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:32 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
I will say again. I do not respect GSP because he CAN finish opponents but chooses not to out of FEAR. Fear that he will lose his prestege, fear that he might just get hit hard, fear that maybe everyone won't look up to him if he loses. I don't respect GSP for having every advantage but being too afraid to use them.
You are too harsh. Saying he CAN finish and CHOSES NOT TO, because of FEAR - is ridiculous.

Sorry.

I'll give you the Hardy fight. St-Pierre should have ended that fight with one of those sub attempts.

But the other 4: Shields (finished once in his career - 10 years ago, in his 3rd fight). Fitch (finished twice at the begining of his career - 8 years ago). And Kos and Alves are both tough guys. Except Kos' flash KO loss to Thiago, neither fighter has been finished in the last 5 years.

Plus: GSP doesn't have KO power like Alves, Kos or Rumble for example. His striking is great, but not in that area.
And, even though his BJJ is great also, it's not an aggressive-offensive BJJ, like Rocha's, Shields' or Maia's.

GSP isn't fighting cans. He is fighting No. 1 contenders and making them look bad.

I wish he would be more aggressive, but his opponents need to bring it.

People need to finally think of GSP as being this great KO artist.
He never was in the first place.

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I KNOW that everybody was screaming at the TV when he kicked Shields in the head, "Follow it up!!!!!!!", that was what happened in our place....

So, if everybody could chill a little bit, and stay of the message boards with "advice for GSP" coming from fans, who many of them, not even train, I say, give the guy some love,
PS: Aldo COULD HAVE finished both Hominick and Faber - easily - but he CHOSE not to. FEAR?!
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Old 05-04-2011, 06:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Bas is THE MAN!



You are too harsh. Saying he CAN finish and CHOSES NOT TO, because of FEAR - is ridiculous.

Sorry.

I'll give you the Hardy fight. St-Pierre should have ended that fight with one of those sub attempts.

But the other 4: Shields (finished once in his career - 10 years ago, in his 3rd fight). Fitch (finished twice at the begining of his career - 8 years ago). And Kos and Alves are both tough guys. Except Kos' flash KO loss to Thiago, neither fighter has been finished in the last 5 years.

Plus: GSP doesn't have KO power like Alves, Kos or Rumble for example. His striking is great, but not in that area.
And, even though his BJJ is great also, it's not an aggressive-offensive BJJ, like Rocha's, Shields' or Maia's.

GSP isn't fighting cans. He is fighting No. 1 contenders and making them look bad.

I wish he would be more aggressive, but his opponents need to bring it.

People need to finally think of GSP as being this great KO artist.
He never was in the first place.



PS: Aldo COULD HAVE finished both Hominick and Faber - easily - but he CHOSE not to. FEAR?!
1. I never said I wanted a KO from GSP. I could care less if he knocks someone out cold. I'm just becoming frustrated buying into the hype that this time will be the time we see the GSP I actually enjoyed watching (Pre-Serra 1). If not for it being a dream fight of mine (GSP vs Shields) and Machida being on the card, I wouldn't have even bought it because I have zero hope to ever see the finisher GSP he's proven he is physically capable of being. GSP has shown he CAN TKO his opponents with punches in bunches, as well as kicks, and he has proven he CAN submit opponents.

2. This "he was fighting top contenders why shouldn't he be allowed to not finish" stuff is bullsh*t. Anderson Silva has finished just about everyone put in front of him. That is the only reason he's above GSP on my P4P list, he finishes fights.

3. I'm not giving any advice to GSP. I'm expressing my discontent with his frustrating performances.

4. I'm all for the one-sided decision (obviously since Machida is one of my all time favorite fighters). But its just pitiful to watch GSP bounce around and grind out someone who's far outclassed.

My point is in regard to GSP since Serra 2 (which was a great fight IMO). He's shown very little willingness to take the risk of finishing his opponent. The argument he's the UFC champ! he can't take that risk! is a pile of excriment as well, he's literally the only champion who doesn't try to finish his opponents. The only logical explanation is he's afraid to take the risk.

Aldo COULDN'T finish Hominick, that's the difference.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Considering JBJ in the top P4P but not Jake Shields is one of the most absurd things I've ever read on MMAF.
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Old 05-05-2011, 12:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Haha, I love this notion that if GSP had followed up to attack Shields after the headkick, Shields would have INSTANTLY tapped him out and the fight would have been over.

Gee, you know, maybe GSP shouldn't have stood with Shields. I mean, people HAVE gotten knocked out in the past before. In fact, he shouldn't have taken the fight. People HAVE been sick or injured before fights, GSP knows this.

Get over it people. Your safe, conservative, boring champion is boring before and after an eye poke.
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Old 05-05-2011, 04:28 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Bas is THE MAN!



You are too harsh. Saying he CAN finish and CHOSES NOT TO, because of FEAR - is ridiculous.
[/i][/b]
I'm with you on this one, you don't step into this octagon for years, facing the most dangerous men in your weightclass if you're afraid of anything.

people talk and don't listen

out of interviews here's what I got off GSP

- He wants to continue fighting
- He still wants to be in good health when he retreats in order to have a good family life
- He wants to bring something to the sport

and I think he's doing pretty well


it's anyone's right to hate on the guy, but don't go out and say he's afraid of anything, he and silvia are facing the best of the best that is out there for years, and they're always not only victorious, but also dominant.

I've rewatched the Shields/GSP fight, I had doubts on the first time I've seen it, maybe Shields got a couple rounds, but then when I watched it for the 2nd time, it's clear GSP was dominating, he tried to go for the finish but didn't have enough tools and work to get it, and I'm pretty sure Shields also has an amazing chin, he was hit with some nasty shots and got even dropped a few times.
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Old 05-05-2011, 06:19 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
1. I never said I wanted a KO from GSP. I could care less if he knocks someone out cold. I'm just becoming frustrated buying into the hype that this time will be the time we see the GSP I actually enjoyed watching (Pre-Serra 1). If not for it being a dream fight of mine (GSP vs Shields) and Machida being on the card, I wouldn't have even bought it because I have zero hope to ever see the finisher GSP he's proven he is physically capable of being. GSP has shown he CAN TKO his opponents with punches in bunches, as well as kicks, and he has proven he CAN submit opponents.
1st bolded part - Simple. Don't buy the hype.

2nd bolded part - GSP isn't *the finisher* people think he is. He never was in the 1st place.
Agreed: he finished Hughes x2, Serra, forced BJ to quit, TKO'd Sherk and Hieron and subbed Trigg.

Other than that, who are the other fighters GSP has finished?! Mediocre fighters, one of them fighting at 145 right now (Menjivar). And all those finishes happened outside the UFC, in smaller organisations.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
2. This "he was fighting top contenders why shouldn't he be allowed to not finish" stuff is bullsh*t. Anderson Silva has finished just about everyone put in front of him. That is the only reason he's above GSP on my P4P list, he finishes fights.
It's not' bulls*it.
A. Because you can't compare St-Pierre's opponents to Silva's opponents.

GSP's opponents (minus Hardy) had far better résumés and credentials than Silva's. At least imo.

B. Because you can't compare Silva's fighting style with St-Perre's fighting style.

Silva's biggest strength is his striking.
GSP's biggest strength is his wrestling.

It's a proven facts that strikers get more finishes than wrestlers. Especially at this level.
When you're striking, the chances of KO'ing your opponents, by punching/kicking them, is higher than when you wrestle them.

And even though GSP has great striking, it's not the same as Silva's. GSP's striking isn't designed to KO people, like Silva, or Alves, BJ, Condit or Rumble for example.
GSP's striking has other objectives to put it this way.

PS: no one gives a SHIT about P4P!!!

It's an internet creation, made by the same people who couldn't figure out who is better: Batman or Spiderman?! Hulk or Superman?! SonGoku or Superman?!

It's something like that show: Deadliest warrior, where they compare gladiators to ninjas, medieval knights vs samurai, spetsnaz vs green berets or spartans vs taliban warriors...

P4P is just a bunch of crap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
3. I'm not giving any advice to GSP. I'm expressing my discontent with his frustrating performances.
I added that quote just to throw some light on an expert's opinion. It wasn't directed at you.

I think Bas said it best.
There is a level of frustration, clearly.
But, people who sit in front of the TV and have *no balls* going through the stuff these professional fighters go through are ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
4. I'm all for the one-sided decision (obviously since Machida is one of my all time favorite fighters). But its just pitiful to watch GSP bounce around and grind out someone who's far outclassed.

My point is in regard to GSP since Serra 2 (which was a great fight IMO). He's shown very little willingness to take the risk of finishing his opponent. The argument he's the UFC champ! he can't take that risk! is a pile of excriment as well, he's literally the only champion who doesn't try to finish his opponents. The only logical explanation is he's afraid to take the risk.
yes. He doesn't wanna take that risk. because he took it once and paid for it. Losing the fight by getting KO'd.

But he did finish 3 opponents after that fight.

I wish he would be more willing to take risks also, but i'm not him. I don't know how he analyses the situation in the fights he's in.
I believe he is constantly comaparing risks and rewards and
takes a decision based on that.

What people should be more concerned about is: why aren't his opponents willing to take the extra risk when fighting him?!

Remember this? --->



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"GSP will take me down, and I will submit him"
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"I’ve told GSP from day one that I will make him stand up and that I’m going to knock him out"
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"I’m going to knock [GSP] out, so don’t blink"
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"I'm going to knock him out" and "shock the world"
And my favorite........

Quote:
"to the death Georges...to the death..."
And what happened?! All of them brought shit when it was time to fight.
All of them were happy to let GSP outpoint them.

I guess every opponent GSP is fighting is waiting for him to finally crak under the pressure of finally finishing a fight and taking that (unnecessary) risk. Hopping they will catch him with a TKO or Sub.
And int he process they f*ck up the fight more than abything else.
They're the contenders...they should go balls out trying to beat GSP - the champion, the legend!

Big fail!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
Aldo COULDN'T finish Hominick, that's the difference.
Aldo's chances of finishing Hominick were much better than GSP's chances against Shields.

I'm not accusing Aldo at all. But it's a good comparison, one that no one wants to take in consideration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_DeLarge_V2 View Post
Haha, I love this notion that if GSP had followed up to attack Shields after the headkick, Shields would have INSTANTLY tapped him out and the fight would have been over.
GSP didn't hurt Shields as badly as most people think.
After he dropped, Shields immediately went for GSP's leg and then laid on his back, feet in the air - like in a normal guard.

Compare that to Shields vs Henderson though...





Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_DeLarge_V2 View Post
Gee, you know, maybe GSP shouldn't have stood with Shields. I mean, people HAVE gotten knocked out in the past before. In fact, he shouldn't have taken the fight. People HAVE been sick or injured before fights, GSP knows this.

Get over it people. Your safe, conservative, boring champion is boring before and after an eye poke.
My safe, conservative, boring champion is the most dominant champion in the history of the UFC and he isn't even 30 years old!!!
No one has even come close at hurting him.
He makes all types of fighters look like they don't know what they're doing.

Quote:
"I wanted to take him down but he stuffed my first couple of shots and I don't know why I started boxing him." - Jake Shields
LOL

GSP says: "i'm not imbressed with your hating skills"
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:48 AM   #19 (permalink)
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My safe, conservative, boring champion is the most dominant champion in the history of the UFC and he isn't even 30 years old!!!
No one has even come close at hurting him.
He makes all types of fighters look like they don't know what they're doing.
I think this sums up GSP. The guy keeps wining with in the rules and plays to the judges in the way they see what a win means. He wins fights against the best in the world. How can you complain to him that "boring" wins fights? Just complain to the way judges score.
To me GSP is a great "chess player" of a fighter. Some call boring or lame but he works game plans and makes people look poor compared to him. I give him full props and think he is great for the sport. I love seeing Chuck Liddell type fights and think that is a very exciting style but GSP does not have that style.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:49 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by VICIII View Post
I think this sums up GSP. The guy keeps wining with in the rules and plays to the judges in the way they see what a win means. He wins fights against the best in the world. How can you complain to him that "boring" wins fights? Just complain to the way judges score.
To me GSP is a great "chess player" of a fighter. Some call boring or lame but he works game plans and makes people look poor compared to him. I give him full props and think he is great for the sport. I love seeing Chuck Liddell type fights and think that is a very exciting style but GSP does not have that style.
I get what you're saying, but usually people don't look like this after "playing chess"







GSP doesn't just "out point" his opponents to play to the judges. He clearly dominates them, and in most cases, brutalizes them inside the octagon. I would doubt that except Dan Hardy, any fighter GSP has fought in the past 6 years could say they've faced that kind of punishment elsewhere.
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