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Old 05-10-2011, 06:58 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Who besides Silva has Maia ever had trouble taking down? Maia has the best triangle in the game and he'd beat Chael over and over and over again. And I LOVE Chael.


Honestly if it weren't for the mental aspect of the game I bet the MW belt would be like the LHW belt, it'd go Silva > Maia > Chael > Silva etc etc etc.
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Old 05-10-2011, 07:44 PM   #62 (permalink)

 
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Originally Posted by TraMaI View Post
I think maia would do it again as well or at least pull guard. Also his boxing had improved by a crazy amount since then. I'm not saying it's great, but c Chael was never anything special standing either so I think it would be competitive striking wise.
Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.

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This is good stuff , first of all Koscheck has horrible striking and is not a complete fighter he is generic American wrestler WHO has is slightly better than the average one, He has power in his hands with no technique and good shoot in and some reasonable submissions nothing more , granted he is effective and like Jon Fitch can win fights with these skills. Akiyama , Kang and Leben have better striking easily.
Don't mistake power for skill. Leben is a horrible striker, technically he sucks. Leben is a fun guy to watch but my god I'm not even sure I can think of 5 fighters in the UFC I would consider worse strikers. Akiyama is also horrible and he just gets worse because he lacks massive power but runs around trying to throw that one big haymaker like he is Shane Carwin or Dan Henderson. Its almost comical to me because frankly Jake Shields is a better striker than Chris Leben. Effective does not equal good. If Leben didn't have such a good chin he would have lost enough fights to get him cut a long time ago.
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Alves and Dan Hardy werent beaten by striking they were beaten by wrestling. They were most likely outstruck the BRIEF time they were standing but they werent exactly beaten with striking.
Choosing not to strike with strikers doesn't make you less skilled. GSP was out striking them and was the better striker in both fights but it is smarter to attack your opponents weakness than fight to there strength.
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Your point about GSP being elite is nonsense , just because he is the BEST fighter in the division does not make him better at everything than everyone , His weakest attribute is striking and Bisping is actually very underrated at striking.
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His biggest weakness is his striking? Why has nobody ever been able to expose this glaring weakness? The only thing we have even seen from GSP that you could possibly call a weakness is you could question is his chin but even that was more to do with a perfectly landed shot from somebody who had never shown the ability to throw like that. Please give me a single example of GSP's horrible striking, show me where somebody capitalized or exposed his striking? Please....
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Old 05-10-2011, 08:58 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Come to think of it, Bisping is actually a very, very good match up to beat GSP. He's a points fighter who uses a long jab and a straight as well as good footwork to out point other fighters. He's also got some stellar takedown defense and once he gets put on his back he's generally very slippery and scrambles very well. His style could very well beat GSP.... that's interesting to say the least IMO. I just don't know if Bisping is good enough to do it.
The problem with Bisping is he's predictable and has too many bad habits; you can always count on him to circle right into the power side of his opponent and once he's tagged he usually backs straight off which makes it easy to hit him again & again. Wandy was able to ding him good thanks to that one, and you can bet GSP and his trainers will watch those tapes and figure out exactly how to make Bisping pay for those mistakes.

It would probably be jab & low kick, pop him with some power jabs or a left hook to rattle him a bit and make him circle to the power side, then slam him with a right straight or overhand right and keep throwing strikes at him till he goes down. They'll also know that Bisping doesn't have KO power so GSP can stay loose with his strikes and hang out in the pocket more than usual. Not much takedown danger either so GSP can use a more striking oriented stance as well for more speed & better angles.
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Old 05-10-2011, 09:46 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.
I don't think he'd necessarily bully him to the floo ror anything like that. I'm not saying he'd be able to take him down at will either. What I was saying is that he'd get it to the ground eventually and once he gets it there it's curtains. Him having improved boxing only makes matters worse for Chael as Chael I believe would have two choices. 1) Box him to a stalemate (I don't see either man knocking the other out at all) and possibly lose a close one/draw or 2) take him down where he's most comfortable and risk getting subbed. The ladder of which I'm 99% certain would happen because most wrestlers (Sonnen included) revert to their natural wrestling instincts when they get punched a few times. Chael has never been heralded as a stellar game planner either.

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The problem with Bisping is he's predictable and has too many bad habits; you can always count on him to circle right into the power side of his opponent and once he's tagged he usually backs straight off which makes it easy to hit him again & again. Wandy was able to ding him good thanks to that one, and you can bet GSP and his trainers will watch those tapes and figure out exactly how to make Bisping pay for those mistakes.
For all his bad habits he has some good ones as well. He throws a lot of straight punches, he has very good footwork (aside from the aforementioned circling lol) and doesn't get hit a lot. He uses his jab and low kicks remarkably well and he's very quick off the punch. He's also a pretty good counter puncher. Which if the fight with Shields is any indicator, GSP would get countered to shit. GSP seems to have a NASTY habit of not moving his head a lot and stay very stagnant when he gets into jab mode and I think Mike would be one of the best fighters to capitalize on that.

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It would probably be jab & low kick, pop him with some power jabs or a left hook to rattle him a bit and make him circle to the power side, then slam him with a right straight or overhand right and keep throwing strikes at him till he goes down. They'll also know that Bisping doesn't have KO power so GSP can stay loose with his strikes and hang out in the pocket more than usual. Not much takedown danger either so GSP can use a more striking oriented stance as well for more speed & better angles.

I'd be willing to bet that Bisping has more KO power than GSP, at least with his kicks if not his hands as well. Bisping also has a pretty good chin. Getting KO'd by Henderson is nothing to scoff at, the dude hits like a truck. He went the distance with Wand and Leben, both of whom hit very, very hard. He also KO'd Jorge pretty efficiently. I think Jorge's lack of chin is greatly over exaggerated as well. He's been KO'd by Anderson, Leben and Terry Martin all of whom hit crazy hard.
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Old 05-10-2011, 10:33 PM   #65 (permalink)

 
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Trai, I can not believe you are seriously considering Bisping as a threat to GSP. Honestly Bisping is nowhere near as good a striker and Bisping ability to counter punch only looks good because he has fought a lot of fighters with either horrible or no striking defense. The same goes for Bispings supposed stellar TD defense. Who has he defended so well against? Please who has Bisping ever defended against that could even hold a candle to the guys GSP has completely outwrestled. Bisping hasn't fought a decent wrestler since he Rashad and Hammill were green as grass. To even consider any relevant fight Bisping has had as a measuring stick to consider his TD defense even in the realm of possibility of stopping GSP is mind boggling.

It never fails to amaze me that the one thing people think is Bisping's weakness is his head movement. I honestly think the once think Bisping does best is he does a good job maintaining distance and avoiding getting hit.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:00 PM   #66 (permalink)
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By "Miss his shots" I meant his strikes, primarily his jab, spinning back kick, and side kick. I can understand the confusion and I should have worded it better.
This thread has all the usual troll action, I think you made some valid points. I didn't think it was a riveting fight but I thought it was a good fight.

I thought Jake made the best of the stand up even though he lost most of the exchanges he was still landing and I think he landed more strikes than anyone at WW against GSP not sure. I saw Jake slipping more punches than he's getting credit for but he was still losing so I think there is some middle ground in the debate IDK.

Bisping IMO couldn't stay one his feet long enough to make the striking debate debatable.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:03 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I'm not saying he'd beat him outright. I'm saying that his style matches up well with him enough to make it cometitive. Believe me, I think Bisping is overrated as shit and I think GSP would beat him, but not as badly as he beat the snot out of Kos and Shields.

And Bisping's TDD isn't stellar necessarily, it's his ability to stand back up and scramble that's really good.
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Old 05-10-2011, 11:14 PM   #68 (permalink)
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See I didn't think he beat the snot out of Shield, he won but just IMO it wasn't a beatdown.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:08 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Maia's striking has imo improved drastically and I don't know who wins the kickboxing bout but I was simply saying I would be shocked if Maia could throw Sonnen down like that again.

Agreed , Sonnen was doing well up until the trip.

Don't mistake power for skill. Leben is a horrible striker, technically he sucks. Leben is a fun guy to watch but my god I'm not even sure I can think of 5 fighters in the UFC I would consider worse strikers. Akiyama is also horrible and he just gets worse because he lacks massive power but runs around trying to throw that one big haymaker like he is Shane Carwin or Dan Henderson. Its almost comical to me because frankly Jake Shields is a better striker than Chris Leben. Effective does not equal good. If Leben didn't have such a good chin he would have lost enough fights to get him cut a long time ago.

This is the same for Koscheck and Shields both Horrible strikers , at least Akiyama , kang and Leben have method in their madness.



Choosing not to strike with strikers doesn't make you less skilled. GSP was out striking them and was the better striker in both fights but it is smarter to attack your opponents weakness than fight to there strength.

I agree he should exploit weaknesses , but you cannot point to those fights and say look there is evidence that he is a great striker. I may aswell say Guida is a better striker than Gomi because he was able to out strike him in their fight. GSP took them down continuously and basically now and then threw a nice hook or jab which connected then shot in to me that isnt being great at striking or out right beating a guy at striking , he simply landed shots because he confused them but he wasnt standing long enough with them to actually consider it a striking display.



His biggest weakness is his striking? Why has nobody ever been able to expose this glaring weakness? The only thing we have even seen from GSP that you could possibly call a weakness is you could question is his chin but even that was more to do with a perfectly landed shot from somebody who had never shown the ability to throw like that. Please give me a single example of GSP's horrible striking, show me where somebody capitalized or exposed his striking? Please....

GSP weakness is his striking and Serra has capitalised on it but that is a bad example of sorts , my point is GSP wrestling doesnt allow fighters to strike with him he simply takes them down when he feels threatened by a guy Hardy , Alves etc and strikes with guys he isnt scared of Koscheck and Shields. GSP doesnt have horrible striking he just doesnt have as good striking as Bisping which was the original point and i doubt he will get exposed by a someone until they can stuff his TD.
That is all have to say on that matter.

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e. The same goes for Bispings supposed stellar TD defense. Who has he defended so well against? Please who has Bisping ever defended against that could even hold a candle to the guys GSP has completely outwrestled. Bisping hasn't fought a decent wrestler since he Rashad and Hammill were green as grass. To even consider any relevant fight Bisping has had as a measuring stick to consider his TD defense even in the realm of possibility of stopping GSP is mind boggling.
You already answered your own question , Rashad Evans is one of the best LHW wrestlers and he did better than most guys at stuffing him , that was a few years back he can only have improved.

Im not saying his TD is stellar but its certainly not bad its quite decent, he would most likley get taken down by GSP eventually if they faced one another but i believe its not that cut and dry, i feel that GSP wouldnt be able to just get him down and the fight would be closer than you think.

conclusion , Bisping has a chance vs GSP a very slim one and overall i think he has better striking but that doesnt mean GSP has bad striking and i feel Bisping would lose because he wouldnt be able to stuff every takedown ,i just get annoyed the way goes OVERBOARD with Bisping is shit nonsense.
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Old 05-11-2011, 12:23 AM   #70 (permalink)
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For all his bad habits he has some good ones as well. He throws a lot of straight punches, he has very good footwork (aside from the aforementioned circling lol) and doesn't get hit a lot. He uses his jab and low kicks remarkably well and he's very quick off the punch. He's also a pretty good counter puncher. Which if the fight with Shields is any indicator, GSP would get countered to shit. GSP seems to have a NASTY habit of not moving his head a lot and stay very stagnant when he gets into jab mode and I think Mike would be one of the best fighters to capitalize on that.
Dude, he got tagged hard by Wanderlei several times and knocked silly at the end of the 3rd round. Wandy, as much as I respect the man is hardly the best or most technical striker around though he does hit like a Mack truck. While it's true that GSP doesn't use much head movement, he still doesn't get hit much since he has the reaction time & speed to get out of the way before the punch gets there.

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I'd be willing to bet that Bisping has more KO power than GSP, at least with his kicks if not his hands as well. Bisping also has a pretty good chin. Getting KO'd by Henderson is nothing to scoff at, the dude hits like a truck. He went the distance with Wand and Leben, both of whom hit very, very hard. He also KO'd Jorge pretty efficiently. I think Jorge's lack of chin is greatly over exaggerated as well. He's been KO'd by Anderson, Leben and Terry Martin all of whom hit crazy hard.
Yeah, and how many punches did it take for Bisping to TKO Jorge after the illegal knee? Has Bisping ever scored a one shot knockdown on anyone? GSP knocked down Hughes and Shields with head kicks, flattened Alves and Fitch with a single punch, and broke Kos' face with jabs. I'd put the power advantage solidly in GSP's favour.
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