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Old 05-13-2011, 06:34 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Mirage445 View Post
His cardio may not have been as good as it was in the past, but go look at the beginning of round 3 after he had a bit of a rest, he didn't look nearly as sluggish as he did in the earlier parts of the fight.
He looked completely out of it Mirage. Listen to his corner between rounds.. all they were saying is breath, breath Shogun.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:36 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
He looked completely out of it Mirage. Listen to his corner between rounds.. all they were saying is breath, breath Shogun.
JBJs corner was saying the same thing to be fair.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Squirrelfighter View Post
Opionated dribble doesn't close the case. Shogun was obviously out of shape. Anyone with non-rose colored glasses could see that.
Like i've said...subject has been discussed WAY TOO MANY TIMES!

People will always find something to say about that fight.

Fact remains:
1. Jones beat Shogun.
2. Shogun gave him props for being the better fighter on that night. NO EXCUSES AFTERWARDS!

Some people have accepted it.
...Other people haven't.

I'm in the 1st cathegory btw.


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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
I really don't know what you guys see in Jones striking limba, but for he looks sloopy, slow and is still searching for his own style and technique there.. he is really not a great striker yet. I am 100% sure he will develope a great striking game in the future, but it will always be his weak point cause you can not compete against people there who have done this far longer then you did.

Thats why I said Jones is a great, great fighter because of his overall game. But striking wise he is still a newbie in the game.
Jones may be *a newbie*, but his striking is good.

In fact i'm gonna go ALL IN and say: his striking is PERFECT...for the kind of fighter he is and the style of fighting he posseses at this moment.

He may not be yout typical striker. In fact, his striking is still very young, but it is very well integrated in his overall game.

And another thing: let's not make a BIG error: let's not talk JUST about Jones' striking.

We really must talk about Jones' STAND-UP - eich incorporates his striking, but a lot of other elements also.

I don't know why you are so obsessed with saying there a re a lot of fighters who would beat Jones in a striking match. This sounds a lot like ehat Dan Hardy has been saying in the last 2 years: striking striking striking...

This is like me saying: there are a lot of fighter out ther who have better wrestling than Machida and can out-wrestle him any day. It's just silly...this is MMA!

Jones...or for that mather...any MMA fighter...doesn't need to prove to anyone that he can out-strike another fighter.
Not as long as he's allowed to resort to his other skills: wrestling + grappling. Especially wrestling, combined with his vicious GnP and control on the ground.

Jones is evolving into a monster (some think he is one right now) and Evans doesn't have anything for him atm.

The only thing i see working for Evans in a possible fight against Jones is: a lucky punch or a TD + blancket time.


PS: i would love to talk more about this, but it's getting pretty late down here and tomorrow it's a long day of hard work for me.


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Originally Posted by Machida Karate View Post
Rashad would of got beating by Shogun and he was a joke to Jones...

Ill bet ANY Rashad fan EVERYTHING i have that he would get SMOKED by Jones....
Same here.

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Originally Posted by Mirage445 View Post
All I recall is Jones schooling him the entire fight.
Me too. Strange...
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
What Squirell said MK!

You can't judge his striking on this fight, you just can't!

Shogun was putting his belt on the line after being off for that long, just to come in all out of shape?

Sorry Bobby... He took Shogun down to the ground and beat his ass like i havent seen, and threw strikes with PERFECT timing... And the way he set up his spinning elbows and everything was awesome...

Re watch that fight, and see that Shogun looked like the normal Shogun at the beginning until Jones completely threw him off his game and Shogun spent the rest of the fight wondering what Jones was going to do next, and after that it was over...

There is no way anyone can tell me after all that time he already took off, that he wasn't physically ready for that fight...

But i guess people just need more convincing with each DOMINATION Jones performs in each and every fight...

Odd
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:49 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by limba View Post
Like i've said...subject has been discussed WAY TOO MANY TIMES!

People will always find something to say about that fight.

Fact remains:
1. Jones beat Shogun.
2. Shogun gave him props for being the better fighter on that night. NO EXCUSES AFTERWARDS!

Some people have accepted it.
...Other people haven't.

I'm in the 1st cathegory btw.




Jones may be *a newbie*, but his striking is good.

In fact i'm gonna go ALL IN and say: his striking is PERFECT...for the kind of fighter he is and the style of fighting he posseses at this moment.

He may not be yout typical striker. In fact, his striking is still very young, but it is very well integrated in his overall game.

And another thing: let's not make a BIG error: let's not talk JUST about Jones' striking.

We really must talk about Jones' STAND-UP - eich incorporates his striking, but a lot of other elements also.

I don't know why you are so obsessed with saying there a re a lot of fighters who would beat Jones in a striking match. This sounds a lot like ehat Dan Hardy has been saying in the last 2 years: striking striking striking...

This is like me saying: there are a lot of fighter out ther who have better wrestling than Machida and can out-wrestle him any day. It's just silly...this is MMA!

Jones...or for that mather...any MMA fighter...doesn't need to prove to anyone that he can out-strike another fighter.
Not as long as he's allowed to resort to his other skills: wrestling + grappling. Especially wrestling, combined with his vicious GnP and control on the ground.

Jones is evolving into a monster (some think he is one right now) and Evans doesn't have anything for him atm.

The only thing i see working for Evans in a possible fight against Jones is: a lucky punch or a TD + blancket time.


PS: i would love to talk more about this, but it's getting pretty late down here and tomorrow it's a long day of hard work for me.




Same here.



Me too. Strange...
Again, thats why I said Jones is already a great, great fighter!

But if he stands tow to toe with a guy like Shogun he is going to lose if he doesn't use his strong points.

Just saying don't believe that Jones is this incredible striker yet.. he is a rookie there who has like 3-4 years of experience in striking. It takes a lot longer to master it.

The gap between him and the elite will always be there striking wise in my mind, because it takes years to close it. Jones is still very, very young so I am not saying he can't develope into a great striker someday.

Right know he is nothing special there and Rashad is better in my eyes. Rashad would be an extremely intersting matchup for JBJ and I am sad it doesn't happen..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machida Karate View Post
Shogun was putting his belt on the line after being off for that long, just to come in all out of shape?

Sorry Bobby... He took Shogun down to the ground and beat his ass like i havent seen, and threw strikes with PERFECT timing... And the way he set up his spinning elbows and everything was awesome...

Re watch that fight, and see that Shogun looked like the normal Shogun at the beginning until Jones completely threw him off his game and Shogun spent the rest of the fight wondering what Jones was going to do next, and after that it was over...

There is no way anyone can tell me after all that time he already took off, that he wasn't physically ready for that fight...

But i guess people just need more convincing with each DOMINATION Jones performs in each and every fight...

Odd
MK, after the first grappling exchange on the ground with literally no damange what so ever from Jones.. Shogun was completely out of it after he needed almost an hour to get back up.

I am done with this topic cause I have talked about this way to often already..


The Shogun who fought Jones, was no different then the Shogun who fought Forrest.. cause again he came off after a knee surgery and again he gassed out after the first round.

I can only tell you MK, lets wait for Jones vs. Shogun II
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:54 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
Again, thats why I said Jones is already a great, great fighter!

But if he stands tow to toe with a guy like Shogun he is going to lose if he doesn't use his strong points.

Just saying don't believe that Jones is this incredible striker yet.. he is a rookie there who has like 3-4 years of experience in striking. It takes a lot longer to master it.

The gap between him and the elite will always be there striking wise in my mind, because it takes years to close it. Jones is still very, very young so I am not saying he can't develope into a great striker someday.

Right know he is nothing special there and Rashad is better in my eyes. Rashad would be an extremely intersting matchup for JBJ and I am sad it doesn't happen..

Yeah but there is such a thing as Natural Talent that comes into play, that can overcome experience and Aldo and a lot of new up and comers like Pettis have been showing it too.

I agree that Jones isn't at his top peak and thats the scary part... He has A LOT more room to improve and when he does its just going to be that much more destruction
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:05 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HaVoK View Post
Might? I'm guessing you failed to watch the Jones vs Shogun fight?

People sure like to through that "elite" word around.
I watched it, Jones was impressive, but Shogun had his back a few times and kept dropping down for kneebars, Jones destroyed him but he's still leaving himself open for counters and such, once he cleans up his technique while keeping the flashy aspect if that's even possible he'll be in that conversation.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:26 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I just... don't care at all.


MMA is about fighting, not drama or teams or injury conspiracies or any of that garbage. Jones may be a great athlete but he sure has created a lot of annoying drama at LHW.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
But if he stands tow to toe with a guy like Shogun he is going to lose if he doesn't use his strong points.
This is just ridiculous. Almost non-sense...
Sorry to say it like this. No offense.

I don't even know how to put this tbh...

What do you mean by this?!

Quote:
...if he doesn't use his strong points...
That's the whole point of MMA, the basic principle behind creating Mixed Martial Arts: fighters coming from different disciplines (boxing, wrestling, karate, BJJ, muay thai etc), possessing different skills, going against each other, in order to determine who is the better fighter.

Is there a fighter out there who doesn't use his strong points in a fight (except Gurgel)?!

GSP, BJ, Machida, Cain, Anderson, Couture, JDS,

Sure...with time, some fighters have mastered more disciplines, reaching a level that enables them to fight extremelly well and be comfortable in more areas of the game.

I'm still in awe about that quote.

Listen:

Shogun would get destroyed by Jones, if he wouldn't use his strong points....

Oooohh wait...that happened already.


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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
The gap between him and the elite will always be there striking wise in my mind, because it takes years to close it. Jones is still very, very young so I am not saying he can't develope into a great striker someday.

Right know he is nothing special there and Rashad is better in my eyes. Rashad would be an extremely intersting matchup for JBJ and I am sad it doesn't happen..
You are still too obsessed with judging Jones by his striking alone...

I don't know why you're doing this, tbh.

And even so, i rank Jones much higher than Evans in this area.

And honestly, Evans has s*itty striking...That's what i think.

Except the Liddell KO (who hasn't KO'd Liddell recently?!?!?), he hasn't shown anything.

All Evans does is run from his opponents, trying to counter with his right hand. The only time he thought he can strike, he got KTFO'd. (Lyoto)

He said he's gonna bring the fight to Rampage, but once the fight started, Rampage took the center of the octagon and chased Evans down. Just like Liddell, Thiago Silva or Forrest.

Evans can't strike. Whenever he says he's gonna strike, that's just him saying: "pls follow me, so i can counter you or rush in for a big TD when you try to hit me".

Just my 2 cents.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:09 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
Again, thats why I said Jones is already a great, great fighter!

But if he stands tow to toe with a guy like Shogun he is going to lose if he doesn't use his strong points.

Just saying don't believe that Jones is this incredible striker yet.. he is a rookie there who has like 3-4 years of experience in striking. It takes a lot longer to master it.

The gap between him and the elite will always be there striking wise in my mind, because it takes years to close it. Jones is still very, very young so I am not saying he can't develope into a great striker someday.

Right know he is nothing special there and Rashad is better in my eyes. Rashad would be an extremely intersting matchup for JBJ and I am sad it doesn't happen..



MK, after the first grappling exchange on the ground with literally no damange what so ever from Jones.. Shogun was completely out of it after he needed almost an hour to get back up.

I am done with this topic cause I have talked about this way to often already..


The Shogun who fought Jones, was no different then the Shogun who fought Forrest.. cause again he came off after a knee surgery and again he gassed out after the first round.

I can only tell you MK, lets wait for Jones vs. Shogun II

Fair enough Buddy, and yeah im getting a little sick of this topic when only Time can tell

I still think Jones is the Uncrowned P4P Fighter, so we will see how correct i am with this assumption
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