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Old 05-26-2011, 10:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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The way to beat GSP!

In my opinion we've learned alot from the Shields fight. GSP when reduced to fighting only one way is alot less effective.

In Shields case it was his standup. He boxed him. And got beat up.

The reason why GSP looked so bad against Shields was he had no choice but to stand with him. He didn't get to use all the tools that makes him superior to other fighters. GSP got exposed for what he really is. A dynamic all around fighter who excels at all different types of martial arts. Though does not exceed expectations in one form of fighting.

My stats on GSP are as followed for his fighting abilities. On a 1 - 10 scale.
Standup - 7
Wrestling - 9
Jiu Jitsu - 7
Explosiveness - 10
When all forms mixed together - 11

The great thing about him is he has no one art form like he says. Which is great and all. But when faced with competition who negates one of his abilities he must rely on a weaker form like his stand up or jiu jitsu.

Shields fight is a great example b/c wrestling almost always ends up on the ground and there's so much you can do while on the ground to win the fight. All the tools Shields possess. Which scared GSP into fighting a one dimensional way which I believe can benefit future fighters who go up against GSP.

Who ever fights him next must make him believe that he can only fight one way. Preferably a standup war. A great jiu jitsu artist or wrestler will beat GSP b/c of this. If Shields knew this coming into the fight I honestly think he would have trained more in the boxing department and instead of defensive take down defense he would have focused on the offensive.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:04 AM   #2 (permalink)

 
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I would say striking 9
Wrestling 12
BJJ 8
Explosivenss 10

The problem is that he is the best wrestler in the sport and can keep the fight standing or take it down and there isn't a damn thing anyone can do about it. Shields didn't force GSP to do anything it was all GSP forcing Shields to stand and trade.

A great wrestler will beat him? Funny the 4 best Fitch, Kos, Hughes and Shields already failed.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:08 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If beating GSP was this easy than he wouldnt be champ. The great bjj guy he already beat in Shields and he also beat Koscheck, the great wrestler you refer to. The problem with great strikers is that they often have poor ground games which makes it easy for GSP to just take them down for 5 rounds (Dan Hardy). The closest guy to having the skill set required to beat GSP would definitely be Nick Diaz. Better stand up and a good enough ground game to possibly be able to sneak in a submission.

Everybody knows GSP has great wrestling but the reason he wins so many fights is because his secondary skill is way better than the secondary skill of everybody else...until someone comes along who can change that I cant see GSP losing.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:10 AM   #4 (permalink)
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a 5'11 170lb Frankie Edgar would give GSP a serious run for his money.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Undisputed2011 View Post
In my opinion we've learned alot from the Shields fight. GSP when reduced to fighting only one way is alot less effective.

In Shields case it was his standup. He boxed him. And got beat up.

The reason why GSP looked so bad against Shields was he had no choice but to stand with him. He didn't get to use all the tools that makes him superior to other fighters. GSP got exposed for what he really is. A dynamic all around fighter who excels at all different types of martial arts. Though does not exceed expectations in one form of fighting.

My stats on GSP are as followed for his fighting abilities. On a 1 - 10 scale.
Standup - 7
Wrestling - 9
Jiu Jitsu - 7
Explosiveness - 10
When all forms mixed together - 11

The great thing about him is he has no one art form like he says. Which is great and all. But when faced with competition who negates one of his abilities he must rely on a weaker form like his stand up or jiu jitsu.

Shields fight is a great example b/c wrestling almost always ends up on the ground and there's so much you can do while on the ground to win the fight. All the tools Shields possess. Which scared GSP into fighting a one dimensional way which I believe can benefit future fighters who go up against GSP.

Who ever fights him next must make him believe that he can only fight one way. Preferably a standup war. A great jiu jitsu artist or wrestler will beat GSP b/c of this. If Shields knew this coming into the fight I honestly think he would have trained more in the boxing department and instead of defensive take down defense he would have focused on the offensive.
The problem I see here is that GSP has been fighting people with stregnths in one area and just good in others. SO he goes in on the weakest area of an opponent. You can't say that he couldnt have taken Jake down just that he thought his best bet was on the feet, same thing with Kos. He didn't stand with BJ until he gassed him out. Didn't stand with Hardy either.

The problem is that GSP is complete w/ a serious edge in wrestling. Until he meets a fighter just as complete w/ an edge in one area of the others, he will continue to pick the opponents weakest attribute and focus the whole fight to that end. He won't go for a a finish unless its pratically screaming at him.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Didn't he try to take Shields down? Those are the 4 best that he's faced. But they were also one dimensional or he knew he was superior in more aspects. He kept them guessing. Which attributed to him out wrestling them. Plus switching it up.

With Shields he kept it standing b/c he knew if he tried to wrestle him to the ground there was a good chance he would have gotten submitted.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:26 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by prolyfic View Post
The problem I see here is that GSP has been fighting people with stregnths in one area and just good in others. SO he goes in on the weakest area of an opponent. You can't say that he couldnt have taken Jake down just that he thought his best bet was on the feet, same thing with Kos. He didn't stand with BJ until he gassed him out. Didn't stand with Hardy either.

The problem is that GSP is complete w/ a serious edge in wrestling. Until he meets a fighter just as complete w/ an edge in one area of the others, he will continue to pick the opponents weakest attribute and focus the whole fight to that end. He won't go for a a finish unless its pratically screaming at him.
He may have been able to take Jake down but he didn't. Thats a weakness right there. You anticipate how he may fight you. Than you work on that to beat him. Like I said if Jake focused on striking and offensive take downs I strongly believe he would have taken that fight.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:30 AM   #8 (permalink)
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To me, MMA formulas will never carry much weight. There are too many factors to say 1 particular thing will lead to 1 specific result. Sure, we knew that GSP would take Dan Hardy down and dominate him but the gap was so huge that there really wasn't any doubt.

When you get a guy like Shields with good BJJ and good wrestling you automatically think that he's going to haul a guy down and submit him which in a lot of cases he will. Unfortunately for him, he wasn't fighting Paul Daley, he was fighting a guy who has more that 1 way to win the fight. I was quite honestly disappointed that Shields didn't push the pace more and just go for takedowns with some real effort. It really looked like he was saving his energy for 1 big chance that just didn't happen. GSP stuffed a few of his single legs so he just decided to box with him.

I really don't think that an 8-12 week training camp for a guy like Shields, who has pretty bad standup, would make much of a difference against anyone near the top really. He needed to be much more explosive against GSP if he was going to have any hope of getting him to the mat. A lot of fans give GSP grief for this fight but what did Jake do to win this fight? The finger pointing can go in all directions but when you look at a guy who has a title shot with everything on the line you'd think he would have put more energy into driving into GSP and working his ass off for a takedown.

Now lets just say that Shields actually did take GSP down. He's not fighting a blue belt with no experience with top level guys. He was fighting a black belt who has been working with submission specialists for a long time. So he gets him to the mat with say 1:30 left on the clock, he might not even get the chance to sink in a choke, or work for an armbar. When these top level guys are so close in skill level finishes don't always come as easily as everyone would hope.

Anyways back on topic after that rant. The way to beat GSP. If you look at the matchup that we're all waiting for GSP vs. Silva you can see some things that could possibly lead to his defeat. Legit one-punch knockout power, not the kind of power that knocks out cans but the kind of power that Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin, Forrest Griffin, Vitor Belfort and many more top level guys have crumbled under. Silva also has very long limbs, a good chin and excellent BJJ from the bottom. We're not talking about an undersized BJ Penn with fairly short limbs (in comparison), we're talking about very long limbs that make your position on top a pain in the ass to pass or make any adjustments.

I'm not saying that Anderson is the guy to do it but if we're looking at the WW division where the majority of the guys are wrestlers w/o 1 punch knockout power and fairly average bottom game (in comparison) we might be waiting a while to see GSP lose.
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:42 AM   #9 (permalink)
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To me, MMA formulas will never carry much weight. There are too many factors to say 1 particular thing will lead to 1 specific result.
You might as well just close the thread right there.
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Old 05-26-2011, 01:44 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It boggles the mind how much people still underrated GSP's striking. The fact of the matter is the cut he suffered against Shields (which was from a weird open handed slap) was the first sign of damage on GSP's face since he lost to Matt Serra. He has fought 9 times in that time and barely been hit!

Ok he doesn't have KO power but he turned Fitch, Koscheck and Shield's faces a nasty shade of purple.

I think he takes a fight with Nick Diaz every day of the week. People seem very happy to forget that Diaz got tagged over and over by Noons and Zaromskis and got dropped and very nearly finished by Daley.

The better boxer is not the one with the better KO record its the one who can cause damage without taking any themselves - GSP excells at that.
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