Who do you think is a better matchup to beat jon jones? Rampage or Lyoto - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:21 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Dude... that fight was a looooong time ago. Much has happened since.
True but if anything Jones has gotten bigger since which means an even bigger weight cut. Well maybe he has really improved his cardio! But nobody knows until it's tested
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:28 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I would lean towards Machida.

Quoting myself from another thread:

"I on the other hand think, that Machida could be the one who gives Jones the most trouble. Why¿ Because he fights differently than the others. Most other opponents met Jones' force with force, but pure physical power is Jones's domain. In addition, while Jones' striking is technically not very sound yet, his willingness and joy in trying things out gives him a bigger striking arsenal than most other fighters use. That, even if technically not perfect, gives him an advantage when standing toe to toe and trading strikes with him. So his former opponents played his game, Machida doesn't. Machida's fighting style is not meant to step into Jones' domain, it's almost the exact opposite. The elusiveness is what could give Jones big trouble.

It's still a fight though and maybe Jones can put a pressure on Machida which the latter can not avoid, but stylistically Machida could pretty much be the answer to Jones."
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:39 PM   #23 (permalink)
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The difference is that when Semmy gets pressured he can only retreat or counter with his high knees and because of his size he is quite slow. Jones on the other hand can clinch and go for a TD whenever someone gets close to him.
I agree which is why I don't think either option is very good but you still have more of a chance to land hard on his head from the pocket. You would need to have really good footwork and head movement as well as tdd to beat him standing. You essentially have to enter the pocket and move with him not letting him close in or back out. If you can't do that then covering up going in and throwing haymakers at his head is your next best option.

Bones can land his hands on Lyoto from farther away than Lyoto can land kicks. That is a huge advantage for a ranged striking contest it doesn't matter that Bones isn't as good at striking.

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True but if anything Jones has gotten bigger since which means an even bigger weight cut. Well maybe he has really improved his cardio! But nobody knows until it's tested
He said after the Shogun fight that he changed his diet and was weighing around 220 at fight time so the cut is easier now.

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Old 05-29-2011, 06:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Its pretty hard to say who would have a better shot against Jones.

Both Machida and Rampage have a very methodical style. Both have strong takedown defense and use their stand up to win/finish fights. However, its the manner in which they go about this task that is the difference maker for me.

Rampage uses a boxing sand up style in which he uses his footwork to get into his range against his opponent. He, however, takes an exceptional amount of damage to get into, and stay in, his most effective range. Rampage is a very durable fighter with a strong chin. But his fights against Griffin and Machida showed that it is completely possible to use his willingness to wander into the pocket against him with rangy attacks. The Jon Jones specialty.

Machida on the other hand uses the exact opposite approach. He uses kicks and in-and-out punches to wear down, and when the opportunity is presented, finish his opponent. He tends to almost always stay away from the pocket and instead stay just outside the edge of his opponents reach. Machida's weakness on the feet is his "fighting in a phone booth" aversion. Shogun #2 and Rampage showed that if you get in his teeth with punches he's less able to counter and instead looks to escape. This is not Jones style. He uses a rangy style of stand up and clinches usually only when looking for the throw or a Thai clinch.

Since Machida's style does not lend an advantage to Jones, Machida is a better prospect from a stylistic stand point.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I agree which is why I don't think either option is very good but you still have more of a chance to land hard on his head from the pocket. You would need to have really good footwork and head movement as well as tdd to beat him standing. You essentially have to enter the pocket and move with him not letting him close in or back out. If you can't do that then covering up going in and throwing haymakers at his head is your next best option.

Bones can land his hands on Lyoto from farther away than Lyoto can land kicks. That is a huge advantage for a ranged striking contest it doesn't matter that Bones isn't as good at striking.
You just picked Lyoto Machida as your number one pick by this logic Sir.


@second part,

So basically you are saying that his reach is going to help him outstrike Lyoto

have you ever seen Stefan Struve fight before?

Reach doesn't help you when you are lightyears behind and don't know how to use it correctly!
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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You just picked Lyoto Machida as your number one pick by this logic Sir.


@second part,

So basically you are saying that his reach is going to help him outstrike Lyoto

have you ever seen Stefan Struve fight before?

Reach doesn't help you when you are lightyears behind and don't know how to use it correctly!
Bones is not Struve he picked apart shogun from range and will be even better in his next fight.

I didn't pick Machida because that isn't how Machida fights. He has the footwork and speed to do that strategy but he doesn't protect his head properly in the pocket leaving his hands low, head high, and not rolling as a matter of instinct. Machida typically stands outside of his own range a bit and jumps in and out of the pocket avoiding counters and requiring his opponent to have a good understanding of footwork and positioning to cut him off which Rampage and Shogun had some success doing.

The problem is that Bones can hit him at the range he normally holds so in order to use that strategy he has to stand about 8-12 inches farther outside. That means he has a farther distance to cover to land his own strikes and Bones has more time to react both in landing and moving away from lyoto's strikes.

Could Lyoto land and win that way? Yes but I am just saying I don't think that strategy has as high of a percent chance of success.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Bones is not Struve he picked apart shogun from range and will be even better in his next fight.

I didn't pick Machida because that isn't how Machida fights. He has the footwork and speed to do that strategy but he doesn't protect his head properly in the pocket leaving his hands low, head high, and not rolling as a matter of instinct. Machida typically stands outside of his own range a bit and jumps in and out of the pocket avoiding counters and requiring his opponent to have a good understanding of footwork and positioning to cut him off which Rampage and Shogun had some success doing.

The problem is that Bones can hit him at the range he normally holds so in order to use that strategy he has to stand about 8-12 inches farther outside. That means he has a farther distance to cover to land his own strikes and Bones has more time to react both in landing and moving away from lyoto's strikes.

Could Lyoto land and win that way? Yes but I am just saying I don't think that strategy has as high of a percent chance of success.
Man I don't even know what to tell you.. but if you truly believe that Bones could even hang with Lyoto in a striking battle then what is wrong with you?

Those are lightyears between them!!

When did Jones start learning how to strike? 3 years ago??


All I am saying to this and this is my last post.. wait until the fight happens and I promise, I'm going to quote you on how easy Machida made it look like!

It's like I am talking to a casual here.. Seriously!
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Page would be harder to takedown and striking from the pocket would work better than striking from range with a guy with that reach. Standing I think we have seen with Semmy that it isn't necessarily the most technical strikers that beat him but the guys that get inside and throw with power to the head while absorbing damage. The kamikaze strategy isn't generally a great idea but your chances of winning go up against guys with crazy reach.
that is exactly what I'm thinking

maybe on paper machida looks like he has a better chance due to his technique, but rampage knows how to keep it simple, he has the chin to take the risks and I can see him rocking and possibly stopping JBJ

sure thing, Rampage vs JBJ won't go the distance
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:26 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I think Rampage has a better shot at KO'n him but machida has a better shot at winning the fight.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:38 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BobbyCooper View Post
Man I don't even know what to tell you.. but if you truly believe that Bones could even hang with Lyoto in a striking battle then what is wrong with you?

Those are lightyears between them!!

When did Jones start learning how to strike? 3 years ago??


All I am saying to this and this is my last post.. wait until the fight happens and I promise, I'm going to quote you on how easy Machida made it look like!

It's like I am talking to a casual here.. Seriously!
If it was a pure 100% striking match I might agree with you,
but Lyoto has to worry about more than just striking with Jones, he has to worry about the TD. Not to mention that Jones has a much longer reach than anyone Lyoto has ever faced iirc. I think it's going to be much harder for Machida to hop in for one of his attacks in this fight and get out without getting countered than he has in his past fights.

But what do I know, I guess I'm just a casual too.
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