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Old 06-09-2011, 01:09 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Old 06-09-2011, 02:57 AM   #22 (permalink)
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The thing is, most mma fighters can take your hardest punch and laugh it off, then you're in for a world of hurt when a single body shot from them would drop you.
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Yeah that's not often acknowledged. Top MMA fighters are not just extremely technical, conditioned, athletic etc... they also are in most cases hard headed freaks who can take far more force to the head than the average man.

Look at what Shogun absorbed against Jones, and he still wasn't out. This guy on the video got punched once by a much smaller guy and was done straight away. MMA houses a different kind of human.
Don't be silly, it's a law of averages. There are tough people everywhere, some people are born tougher than others. MMA is not some strange cult where all the hard headed freaks end up, they are more used to getting hit because they get hit all the time.
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:09 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Oh yah...there's fighters, street fighters, then there's MMA fighters aka professional fighters. I watched one of our 145ers in the gym wreck shop. They hit twice as hard as the average person if not more, they're quicker, stronger, and have better technique. You can't really tell unless you witness it live. But that was a nice crack down the pipe. Boom!
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Old 06-09-2011, 03:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Don't be silly, it's a law of averages. There are tough people everywhere, some people are born tougher than others. MMA is not some strange cult where all the hard headed freaks end up, they are more used to getting hit because they get hit all the time.
As was my point......I wasn't saying that just because you're an MMA fighter you can take a punch from any single non-mma fighter.
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Old 06-09-2011, 05:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Good thread. The other day a guy at my work told me that training in MMA wouldn't help you out in a street fight because on the street "it's real and not a sport". He went on to say that even trained fighters would just throw haymakers in a real fight.
He could have been on the right track if he didn't mean something else. MMA is not the perfect training for self defense, because self defense consists of much more than just fighting. For a good self defense concept you need first of all awareness training so you don't get surprised by a danger (because if you get surprised the fight usually is over before you even know you're in a fight). Secondly you need training of social skills to raise your empathy and to be able to deescalate a dangerous situation (from most of the trouble you could talk your way out if you're smart enough). Only then comes training for a physical confrontation. That's where MMA comes into play. It's not the best choice, because there are quite some differences between MMA fight and street fight (on the street you and your opponent are usually not almost naked and sweaty -unless you're in some kind of sex club - weapons may be involved, there could be difficult environment and multiple attackers), but MMA is still a good choice, because it's full contact and trains the general fitness - so it gives a physical advantage. - and finally a self defense concept also needs a little juristic knowledge so you know how far you can go and you don't end up as "the aggressor" at court and subsequently in jail.

And your co-worker has been somewhat right that even trained fighters would throw haymakers in a real fight. Almost everybody, also trained fighters, goes into caveman-boxing mode if the pressure is high enough. The difference is that trained fighters still have a higher probability to hit their target and they can support more pressure than the average guy.

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Don't be silly, it's a law of averages. There are tough people everywhere, some people are born tougher than others. MMA is not some strange cult where all the hard headed freaks end up, they are more used to getting hit because they get hit all the time.
It's both. On the one hand as MMA (or any full contact martial arts) training (and fighting) is physically and mentally quite hard, only a certain type of people feel attracted to it. On the other hand the training also actually trains to become harder. So it's no wonder that the average MMA fighter usually is tougher than the general average guy, but that doesn't mean that only because someone trains MMA he is automatically tougher than everyone else. I remember reading an article a couple of years ago about a high level MMA fighter who got into an argument with a construction worker on the street. The argument went physical and the construction worker just knocked the MMA guy out.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:09 AM   #26 (permalink)
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He could have been on the right track if he didn't mean something else. MMA is not the perfect training for self defense, because self defense consists of much more than just fighting. For a good self defense concept you need first of all awareness training so you don't get surprised by a danger (because if you get surprised the fight usually is over before you even know you're in a fight). Secondly you need training of social skills to raise your empathy and to be able to deescalate a dangerous situation (from most of the trouble you could talk your way out if you're smart enough). Only then comes training for a physical confrontation. That's where MMA comes into play. It's not the best choice, because there are quite some differences between MMA fight and street fight (on the street you and your opponent are usually not almost naked and sweaty -unless you're in some kind of sex club - weapons may be involved, there could be difficult environment and multiple attackers), but MMA is still a good choice, because it's full contact and trains the general fitness - so it gives a physical advantage. - and finally a self defense concept also needs a little juristic knowledge so you know how far you can go and you don't end up as "the aggressor" at court and subsequently in jail.

And your co-worker has been somewhat right that even trained fighters would throw haymakers in a real fight. Almost everybody, also trained fighters, goes into caveman-boxing mode if the pressure is high enough. The difference is that trained fighters still have a higher probability to hit their target and they can support more pressure than the average guy.
Lol dude I'm a cop. You just posted my daily life right there.

I definitely know the dangers of street fights and have been in more than my fair share. To say that someone who spends 2 hours a day training mixed martial arts won't have an advantage in a fight is hilarious.

I see what you're saying, and I somewhat agree. But I believe if you train mixed martial arts... especially profesionally... you are capable of defending yourself against 90% of the average population.

This is what I hate about meat heads. These guys go lift weights all day. Go out to clubs and bars and get hammered, and start running their mouths like they can kick everyones asses. I'm sure it's mostly due their small penis complex.

Do these people not realize that fighting is an actual art? It's more than big mucles combined with alcohol and little mans complex? It takes years for most people to fight at a professional level and these meat heads think because they juice up and talk shit that they can fight? Thats like someone going out on a baseball / football field and thinking they can play professional ball. Its increadibly ignorant on their part. I laugh inside every time I hear them run their mouths.
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Old 06-09-2011, 09:32 AM   #27 (permalink)
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And your co-worker has been somewhat right that even trained fighters would throw haymakers in a real fight. Almost everybody, also trained fighters, goes into caveman-boxing mode if the pressure is high enough. The difference is that trained fighters still have a higher probability to hit their target and they can support more pressure than the average guy.
This just plain isn't true. Every person goes back to what they feel the most comfortable with under extreme pressure. It's called falling back on your bread and butter. The average guys is going to start throwing haymakers because that's what he has seen all his life. That golden gloves boxer is going to fall back on his boxing because that is his natural instinct. The bjj blackbelt is going to fall back on his grappling under the pressure.

I have spent more than twenty years studying different martial arts and hanging out with other guys who do the same. I have been in and seen trained fighters get into street fights. Both easy ones and high pressure ones. Very rarely do you see them just start throwing haymakers. Lord knows I've never thrown one in a street fight and I have been in far too many.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:42 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Don't be silly, it's a law of averages. There are tough people everywhere, some people are born tougher than others. MMA is not some strange cult where all the hard headed freaks end up, they are more used to getting hit because they get hit all the time.
I think you missed the point entirely.

What I was saying was MMA fighters usually don't make it to the top if they don't have genetics on their side, i.e if they can't take a punch they're not likely to be a top fighter. Do you think it's coincidence that most fighters have ridiculously large heads and necks?

And no, most fighters can take more force because of the size of their heads, their huge square jaws and their thick neck muscles. You don't build up resilience by getting hit.

Maybe you should read some books on concussion and then rejoin this conversation.
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Old 06-09-2011, 10:48 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I see what you're saying, and I somewhat agree. But I believe if you train mixed martial arts... especially profesionally... you are capable of defending yourself against 90% of the average population.
There is not much disagreement there. As I said, MMA is still a good choice and gives you a significant physical advantage.

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This just plain isn't true. Every person goes back to what they feel the most comfortable with under extreme pressure. It's called falling back on your bread and butter. The average guys is going to start throwing haymakers because that's what he has seen all his life. That golden gloves boxer is going to fall back on his boxing because that is his natural instinct. The bjj blackbelt is going to fall back on his grappling under the pressure.

I have spent more than twenty years studying different martial arts and hanging out with other guys who do the same. I have been in and seen trained fighters get into street fights. Both easy ones and high pressure ones. Very rarely do you see them just start throwing haymakers. Lord knows I've never thrown one in a street fight and I have been in far too many.
You see it even in professional fights. When the pressure is too high (usually when the opponent is considerably stronger), people tend to go into survival mode and just swing or try to clamp him. They lose their sophisticated techniques. Maybe "haymakers" is the wrong word (I'm not a native speaker so I may have not the exact connotation in that word and misused it for what I wanted to say), what I mean is that under real high pressure (meaning not just being in a street fight -where, as I said, training helps you to deal with pressure-, but when you lose control of the situation and are about to lose badly) there are no more fine motor skills and even the Golden Gloves boxer that usually mostly uses his jab in competition rather goes for the overhand right to bring the attacker down in a real life threatening situation. He still will have a bigger chance to hit due to his training though.
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Old 06-09-2011, 01:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I think you missed the point entirely.

What I was saying was MMA fighters usually don't make it to the top if they don't have genetics on their side, i.e if they can't take a punch they're not likely to be a top fighter. Do you think it's coincidence that most fighters have ridiculously large heads and necks?

And no, most fighters can take more force because of the size of their heads, their huge square jaws and their thick neck muscles. You don't build up resilience by getting hit.

Maybe you should read some books on concussion and then rejoin this conversation.
Not every fighter has a huge head and neck so...? 9/10 times someone gets decked in a street fight, they are not knocked out, they just fell over from the pure shock and fear of getting hit, they are not used to it. Fighters rarely have that fear or shock when they get hit, because they get hit all the time = trained resilience.

A naturally large neck does help, but the neck is a muscle and most people can increase it's size with training. What do fighters do? Train, which is why you see a lot of fighters with a big neck... = trained resilience.

If you know so much about genetics, you'd know that some people are born tough, and that not all of them have an abnormally big head. Also, I've had my fair share of experiences with head injuries and their consequences to have an opinion, thanks.
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