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Old 06-11-2011, 06:23 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slapshot View Post
After the GSP fight he really showed us he can have cardio, looked good in the kenflo fight and I didn't think cardio was the issue in ether Edgar fight.

P.S. I do think we'll see him fatigue noticeable more at WW but that's just a hunch.
This is where I'm confused. I'm no fighter. I've never had a weight cut. But, I was under the impression, that not going through a harsh cut is better for your energy levels. Penn *should* have more stamina at WW, right? OR have I got it backwards? I'm open to some education.
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Old 06-11-2011, 06:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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This is where I'm confused. I'm no fighter. I've never had a weight cut. But, I was under the impression, that not going through a harsh cut is better for your energy levels. Penn *should* have more stamina at WW, right? OR have I got it backwards? I'm open to some education.
I was under the impression that Penn doesn't do harsh weight cuts. I always thought that when he is a LW he is basically just thinner and training more. He doesn't actually cut that much weight, probably something like 10lbs and that wouldn't drain most fighters. When he fights at WW he didn't really bulk up properly he just lets himself gain a bit of weight.

From what I've heard a lot of fighters can cut ~10% before it starts having noticeable downsides and after 13% it can get really bad. But it depends on the person and their condition. I think GSP is supposed to be cutting ~12% now and he does fine.
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Old 06-11-2011, 10:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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This is where I'm confused. I'm no fighter. I've never had a weight cut. But, I was under the impression, that not going through a harsh cut is better for your energy levels. Penn *should* have more stamina at WW, right? OR have I got it backwards? I'm open to some education.
It really varies a lot. There are tons of factors to take into account. Everyting from muscle mass to hydration, cardio to potential illness.

With muscle mass its either there's too much mass and the fighter's unable to properly perfuse the tissues and they encounter lactic acidosis. Or they have too little muscle mass and their muscles fatigue faster because they're not adaped to the inceased weight of the opponent.

With hydration there's the question of how much was cut for the weigh in, how much was reintroduced during the interveining evening before the fight. There's a point where no matter how hard to try, if you've cut enough you physically can't rehydrate sufficiently. And whats more is that the body sometimes doesn't notice if one is dehydrated when they're no longer in the danger zone for dehydration. The fighter might feel great only to reenter the danger zone and gas within 5 minutes, but that's more of a coaching failure rather than a fighter failure.

Cardio is something that's very hotly debated. Some people believe sprints and distance cardio is enough of the right kind of cardio, some people believe sparring/rolling develops enough. While a third group believe a happy medium between the two is where the best cardio comes from. I'm honestly not sure which works better because there really isn't really ONE that's better. Some forms work better for different fighters. That's on eo fthe reasons why you'll see a fighter in one camp fail in the cardio dept, leave that camp and all of a sudden have a massive gas tank.

Illness is another thing thats debated. How dangerously does any illness affect a fighter's cardio? Damn dangerously. A head cold is the difference between a 5 round battle and a TKO loss. Look at Roy Nelson he had walking pneumonia against Mir. He looked like a zombie after about 30 seconds. (Still did a crazy amount of damage for someone who got dominated though).

For Penn against Fitch, I suspect he had too little muscle, ineffective cardio management in camp, and may not have been properly rehydrated. But that's just me.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:00 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks to the gentlemen above me for the responses.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:54 AM   #15 (permalink)
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When BJ loses why do people continuously blame it on him not being in the right shape, or the right mindset, or whatever other 'not right' variety can be thought of?

He got beat by Edgar, twice. Edgar is a better fighter than BJ Penn.

Just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of reality here.
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Old 06-11-2011, 11:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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When BJ loses why do people continuously blame it on him not being in the right shape, or the right mindset, or whatever other 'not right' variety can be thought of?

He got beat by Edgar, twice. Edgar is a better fighter than BJ Penn.

Just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of reality here.
Reality is overrated.
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:11 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Hiro View Post
When BJ loses why do people continuously blame it on him not being in the right shape, or the right mindset, or whatever other 'not right' variety can be thought of?

He got beat by Edgar, twice. Edgar is a better fighter than BJ Penn.

Just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of reality here.
I've said multiple times he lost to Edgar twice (some give the nod to Penn on points in the first). There's really no debate his cardio was a problem against Fitch. which aside from Edgar is his only loss since GSP.
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Old 06-11-2011, 12:38 PM   #18 (permalink)
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There's really no debate his cardio was a problem against Fitch. which aside from Edgar is his only loss since GSP.
Fitch was his issue in the Fitch fight not cardio IMO.
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:54 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Reality is overrated.
Now this is the sort of honesty I like.
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Old 06-11-2011, 03:16 PM   #20 (permalink)
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In all honesty i think he can beat every LW in the world if he implemented the same gameplan he did with Fitch.

His BJJ is very good and his striking also and he has underated wrestling he is very all round but he just seems to stick to striking all the time and forgets he has other skills to fall back on.

Other than wrestling i wouldnt say he is outclassed in any area he probably is better at striking and BJJ than 90% of the division and even still his wrestling id say is at a pretty good level.
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