Koscheck asks for fight @ UFC 138, at 185lb - Page 4 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #31 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 10:44 PM
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I would be pretty surprised if Koscheck is calling out Leben. Their history to a certain degree adds up I suppose, but in a recent interview Koscheck said that he and Leben have no beef whatsoever with on another and that he wishes nothing but the best for him.

On the other hand, Koscheck has been known to blow smoke as well so... who knows.
If the timing was different, I'd immediately think Bisping, so unless Miller is injured and it's kind of under the radar for now, then I can't see it being Bisping. But those two had a fairly intense rivalry.

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post #32 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 12:14 PM
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I guess that Hendo being an Olympic wrestler doesn't count? Hendo is an above average striker and wrestler and he didn't drop Anderson on multiple occasions.
1. Hendo doesn't use his wrestling nearly as much as Sonnen offensivly, he likes to bang.

2. No hendo is not above average in striking lol, he has an awsome chin and big power but is mediocre at best with his technique.

3. Silva wasn't injured in the Hendo fight

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post #33 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 07:39 PM
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2. No hendo is not above average in striking lol, he has an awsome chin and big power but is mediocre at best with his technique.


lolbro.


This is MMA. Henderson has a chin made of osmium (the element not the MMAF troll) and huge power and great take-down defense. That means, fact: he's an EFFECTIVE striker. In MMA that's everything. He knocked out Feijao - an muay thai striker out of Black House. KO'd Bisping - a fighter who's only skill is striking. He KO'd prime Wanderlei. etc etc etc

This isn't kickboxing, this is MMA, effectiveness is ALL that matters.

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post #34 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-09-2011, 08:36 PM
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Bonnar would look genuinely funny at 185.

Chael against Koscheck would be excellent as Sonnen would outwrestle the shit out of Kos. If it's Leben, well that is a true fight for the fans i'd be all for it.
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post #35 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 06:33 AM
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lolbro.


This is MMA. Henderson has a chin made of osmium (the element not the MMAF troll) and huge power and great take-down defense. That means, fact: he's an EFFECTIVE striker. In MMA that's everything. He knocked out Feijao - an muay thai striker out of Black House. KO'd Bisping - a fighter who's only skill is striking. He KO'd prime Wanderlei. etc etc etc

This isn't kickboxing, this is MMA, effectiveness is ALL that matters.
If that's the way you look at it then yes many of the untechnical strikers are effective, I guess it depends on what you are talking about, I was talking about striking technique.
Being effective in MMA is another thing because it all hangs together, that way it's almost impossible to rate single aspects of a fighters game.
Also I wasn't bashing Hendo if thats what you thought, he is very effective & one of my favourite fighters. I was simply stating that using him as a reference to rate Sonnens boxing isn't relevant.

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post #36 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-10-2011, 09:27 AM
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he should fight Leben. It makes the most sense out of all fights at middleweight for Koscheck.
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post #37 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 10:37 AM
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If that's the way you look at it then yes many of the untechnical strikers are effective, I guess it depends on what you are talking about, I was talking about striking technique.
Being effective in MMA is another thing because it all hangs together, that way it's almost impossible to rate single aspects of a fighters game.
Also I wasn't bashing Hendo if thats what you thought, he is very effective & one of my favourite fighters. I was simply stating that using him as a reference to rate Sonnens boxing isn't relevant.
But really all that matters in MMA is whether what you do is effective or not. Many fighters have ugly-ass technique but it works thereby making them good strikers. You can critique their technique till the cows come home but at the end of the day they're knocking out "better strikers."

So in that regard you look back at Sonnen and regardless of why Anderson got dropped, the fact is that Sonnen's striking was effective enough to drop him on multiple occassions. No matter how ugly, untechnical, or what have you - it worked.
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post #38 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 11:16 AM
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But really all that matters in MMA is whether what you do is effective or not. Many fighters have ugly-ass technique but it works thereby making them good strikers. You can critique their technique till the cows come home but at the end of the day they're knocking out "better strikers."

So in that regard you look back at Sonnen and regardless of why Anderson got dropped, the fact is that Sonnen's striking was effective enough to drop him on multiple occassions. No matter how ugly, untechnical, or what have you - it worked.
While what you say certainly has some truth to it -- in fact, I'd say it's true. I think it's also important to consider why such things are effective. For example, if Chael came out with a game plan just to strike with Anderson the entire fight, despite how effective his striking appeared in some situations, it would soon appear far less effective. The fact is still there that there's a reason his striking was effective, and that reason is because he's so strong in another discipline of the sport, that there's a certain unpredictability that he brings to the table when he does decide to strike.

It's this same concept why, in my opinion, GSP is far more effective at striking than his raw striking technique would warrant in a pure striking match. It's because there's always that danger of being taken down. Which is where I think your point comes in. What you're saying is, it doesn't particularly matter if it's technical, if it works it's effective. And I think that's a valid point. I think it's a point that many people don't consider when looking at fighters like GSP, and then Chael. If Chael were to take his striking to the next level and incorporate solid jabbing, I think with those combination of dangers he would then present, could possibly make him just as dangerous as GSP, a bit more sub defense and we'd basically have a MW GSP.

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post #39 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-11-2011, 01:15 PM
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But really all that matters in MMA is whether what you do is effective or not. Many fighters have ugly-ass technique but it works thereby making them good strikers. You can critique their technique till the cows come home but at the end of the day they're knocking out "better strikers."

So in that regard you look back at Sonnen and regardless of why Anderson got dropped, the fact is that Sonnen's striking was effective enough to drop him on multiple occassions. No matter how ugly, untechnical, or what have you - it worked.
Sure I agree to go so far as to say it was effective, but as we are fightfans we tend to want to break down fighters & different styles. To be able to do that we need to look at the different aspects by themselves. If you do that I wouldn't say that Sonnen is an effective striker. But mixed in his MMA sure, in the Silva fight yes. Then again in other fights not so much so one could easily think that him dropping Silva was a combination of luck and Silva not looking like himself in that fight. Noone knows I guess & maybe Sonnen has some IMO limited boxingskills, what gets to me is that some fans think that because he was able to drop Silva then he must be a better striker than him & is now a proffessional level boxer (not you, you obviously said thats not the case. I'm just saying).
A guy like Hendo on the other hand has proved time and time again that his striking is effective, even tho it really isn't all that technical.

Edit: Damn it, this is a Koscheck thread, seems like I get involved in alot of derailing lately, my bad sorry.

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