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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Chael Sonnen?

Yes, absolutely 14 21.54%
No, absolutely 32 49.23%
Sonnen is right about 2 fighters 12 18.46%
Sonnen is right about 1 fighter 7 10.77%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-08-2011, 03:29 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Haha Oldfan that sig from Sonnen is classic and true on many levels.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
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You're cool Chael. Ripping on legends who were in their primes 10 years ago and were at the top of the food chain back then is soooo badass.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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1 word - steroids. I'm convinced Wanderlei, CroCop, Shogun and Filho were on roids back in Pride, which clearly had jack for testing and actually encouraged steroid use because it made for more aggressive fights. But when they came to the US, they probably figured it was safer to drop it because the testing is stricter.

There's interviews with Chuck where he states he was offered "blowfish juice" by the pride management themselves, for "enhancing strength and stamina" right before the pride GP. There's also many interviews of Rampage stating that he suspected many of the others were on roids but he avoided taking them.

This explains why Rampage and Fedor (IMHO two of the clean ones) made excellent transitions, whereas Filho and CroCop have gone through classic withdrawal depressions from low testerone levels, Shogun suffered from massive loss of cardio, and Wanderlei lost a lot of his aggression and muscle mass.

Again Fedor IMO is not on that list ... he actually transitioned really well and KOd two freshly ex-UFC HW champs in rd 1. He's just gotten old now and a bit unevolved, and there's no shame in that.

Of course Sonnen is an idiot who has no right to talk, he's a roidhead himself, but he does make half a point.
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Old 07-08-2011, 03:50 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by RestInPeace View Post
You're cool Chael. Ripping on legends who were in their primes 10 years ago and were at the top of the food chain back then is soooo badass.
He also ripped on Silva and then fought Silva who is at the top of the current food chain. He's Chael Sonnen he doesn't give a f**k.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
1 word - steroids. I'm convinced Wanderlei, CroCop, Shogun and Filho were on roids back in Pride, which clearly had jack for testing and actually encouraged steroid use because it made for more aggressive fights. But when they came to the US, they probably figured it was safer to drop it because the testing is stricter.

There's interviews with Chuck where he states he was offered "blowfish juice" by the pride management themselves, for "enhancing strength and stamina" right before the pride GP. There's also many interviews of Rampage stating that he suspected many of the others were on roids but he avoided taking them.

This explains why Rampage and Fedor (IMHO two of the clean ones) made excellent transitions, whereas Filho and CroCop have gone through classic withdrawal depressions from low testerone levels, Shogun suffered from massive loss of cardio, and Wanderlei lost a lot of his aggression and muscle mass.

Again Fedor IMO is not on that list ... he actually transitioned really well and KOd two freshly ex-UFC HW champs in rd 1. He's just gotten old now and a bit unevolved, and there's no shame in that.

Of course Sonnen is an idiot who has no right to talk, he's a roidhead himself, but he does make half a point.
I actually thought about that possibility at one point and took it seriously. But on the same token, steriod use is quite common here in the states regardless of stricter enforcement. So if they wanted to they could have just continued.

But I guess we would never know for sure.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:16 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Soakked View Post
I actually thought about that possibility at one point and took it seriously. But on the same token, steriod use is quite common here in the states regardless of stricter enforcement. So if they wanted to they could have just continued.

But I guess we would never know for sure.
Right, but there's a difference between NO repercussions at all and SOME repercussions.

At least in the US some guys do get caught, and repeat offenders do endanger their careers. Marquardt and Barnett for example. And many others do get caught, maligned and suspended for their first time ex: Sherk, Sylvia, Sonnen, Leben, Irvin and so on.

Is it fool proof? No, for that they need random-date testing instead of the fixed pre and post fight testing they have now, and even that isn't fool proof.

But it's a whole lot tougher than Japan. Name ONE guy in Japanese MMA that got caught or punished for roids. Don't hurt your brain too much, it's a trick question.

Cycling steroids may help you beat tests, but it's not fool proof. The human body is a tricky thing, sometimes it can throw you a curve ball and take longer to flush out, get you caught, and ruin your reputation for life. Which is why I suspect these guys went cold turkey when they came over.

But yeah, no way to know for sure.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:23 PM   #27 (permalink)

 
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out BJJ'd by Ricco Rodriguez. I challenge anyone to watch that fight and say Nog won.
Damn rights, not enough people talk about that fight which oh so clearly shows that the Japanese judging system is as inherently flawed as the US one.

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Originally Posted by The_Senator View Post
Well, Fedor is not that old, he's just 34 (soon to be 35). He didn't take tons of punishment during his PRIDE fights comparing to NOG or Wanderlei, so he shouldn't be far from his prime based solely on his age... His skills are still where they should be, so, applying Sonnen's interesting logic about fighters from the same era (Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis ), Fedor still HAS TO be much better than Shane Carwin, Frank Mir, Fabricio Werdum, Roy Nelson, Cheick Kongo and Brock Lesnar to justify his undisputed #1 status among all heavyweights of HIS era, because these guys are the same age or very close to Fedor's. Now, JDS and Cain are much younger, they started MMA much later, so they are the TRUE new generation, no doubt. We can't compare those 2 to Fedor and they can't influence Fedor's supremacy of that era.
Fedor just came from a time when fighters were either big or good and now the fact he is to damn small for HW has became clear. He also seems to have lost interest in a lot of ways since the M-1 drama has continued to unfold.
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Old 07-08-2011, 04:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
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He didn't train in a cage till after the GG fight. Ring and cage are two different environments especially for a striker known for cornering his opponents. I was never on the Cro Cop hype train but the guy was a serious fighter. To make such a transition at such a late period of ones career can take your heart out of it, which obviously happened in a dramatic way with CC.



Typical spin, again Sonnen for president! He makes it sound like Wandy was unstoppable in pride and came into the UFC undefeated, but the truth of the matter is in his last 8 fights in Pride, Wandy went 4-4 (two against open weight). Was he fed a few cans in his 22 win streak, sure, but most are fed a can here or there. He was on a decline when he entered the UFC, unfortunately from all the wars. Minotauro is another example of someone that is past his prime from all the damage taken, even though they are both relatively young.

Fedor got submitted by one of the (if not the) best HW submission fighters in the world, which is nothing to be ashamed of. His mistake is that he is still in pride mode which encourages action, as compared to the more strategic UFC/strikeforce style. Personally I cannot see Fedor "game planning" nor would I want him too. His other loss is against a giant that probably outweighed him by 40 pounds or more (if you factor in Fedor lumps =-)) that has a iron chin, decent striking and a monster on the ground. Again nothing to be ashamed of. I also believe that Fedor has been past his prime for about 3 years now and said so three years ago.
Pretty much this post... but I also agree with Sonnen that something is off over there. Either the competition isn't as good as we thought (Shogun is the only one to really make a mark over here and he destroyed everyone in Japan), PRIDE was in some fishy business or something was going on with the fighters not being drug tested. I'm inclined to believe it's the first option out of those, honestly. A lot of promotions make their fighters out to be great fighters and like they're top level caliber when they aren't. I believe Strikeforce to be VERY guilty of this. Yes, Reem is an absolute monster, possibly one of the best HWs in the world. But the rest of them I'm really not buying. Werdum went 2-2 in the UFC and has since went 2-1 (almost 3-0) against Strikeforce's top HWs and from what I see he really has not improved that much. Antonio is sloppy standing but he's huge and good on the ground, but I'm not horribly impressed with him honestly. He just seems big, slow and sloppy most of the time until he's on the ground. Reminds me of a Tim Sylvia/Lesnar type, though not nearly as fast or explosive as the latter. The rest of their divisions I see as pretty weak, especially now with Diaz and Shields missing, all that's left that I believe can be top competition is Melendez. But a lot of people still see quite a few Strikeforce fighters as legitimate threats (the UFC HW vs SF HW debate) to the UFC. That's how I feel PRIDE was for the most part. There were a few fighters there that were very good (Shogun) but there were a lot who I felt were over inflated. Not trying to hate, just saying.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:44 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Senator View Post
Chael Sonnen made a few fair points about Wanderlei, Mirko and Fedor in one of his most recent interviews.

"Wanderlei's gonna go 22 straight wins in Japan and he can't win 2 straight in America? Mirko Cro Cop's gonna win all those fights in Japan and he can't beat anyone in America? Fedor's gonna win all those fights in Japan and he's 3-2 in America, one of those wins is over a guy who was flipping tires..."

(it's from the "backstage with Chael Sonnen", Ariel Helwani)

What's your opinion on that? Seriously, even Wanderlei's early UFC record was 1-2... And Cro Cop declined surprisingly and rapidly in UFC right after winning PRIDE GP. Is it possible that he was never that good?

I'm not saying I totally agree with Sonnen, I just think it's a good topic for conversation to clarify one thing or two.
They're just past their prime, and to a certain extent, the sport has passed them by. It's like saying the UFC sucks because Tito sucks, Liddell sucks, and Couture sucks--they were great 5 years ago, too, but have lost a ton of fight since then.
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Old 07-08-2011, 05:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liddellianenko View Post
1 word - steroids. I'm convinced Wanderlei, CroCop, Shogun and Filho were on roids back in Pride, which clearly had jack for testing and actually encouraged steroid use because it made for more aggressive fights. But when they came to the US, they probably figured it was safer to drop it because the testing is stricter.

There's interviews with Chuck where he states he was offered "blowfish juice" by the pride management themselves, for "enhancing strength and stamina" right before the pride GP. There's also many interviews of Rampage stating that he suspected many of the others were on roids but he avoided taking them.

This explains why Rampage and Fedor (IMHO two of the clean ones) made excellent transitions, whereas Filho and CroCop have gone through classic withdrawal depressions from low testerone levels, Shogun suffered from massive loss of cardio, and Wanderlei lost a lot of his aggression and muscle mass.

Again Fedor IMO is not on that list ... he actually transitioned really well and KOd two freshly ex-UFC HW champs in rd 1. He's just gotten old now and a bit unevolved, and there's no shame in that.

Of course Sonnen is an idiot who has no right to talk, he's a roidhead himself, but he does make half a point.
So you really think the UFC is clean? I think it's pretty well known that they're very commonplace in UFC. Just because they don't get caught doesn't mean they're not using.
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