Wanderlei sucks, Cro Cop sucks, Fedor sucks... - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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View Poll Results: Do you agree with Chael Sonnen?
Yes, absolutely 14 21.54%
No, absolutely 32 49.23%
Sonnen is right about 2 fighters 12 18.46%
Sonnen is right about 1 fighter 7 10.77%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Wanderlei sucks, Cro Cop sucks, Fedor sucks...

Chael Sonnen made a few fair points about Wanderlei, Mirko and Fedor in one of his most recent interviews.

"Wanderlei's gonna go 22 straight wins in Japan and he can't win 2 straight in America? Mirko Cro Cop's gonna win all those fights in Japan and he can't beat anyone in America? Fedor's gonna win all those fights in Japan and he's 3-2 in America, one of those wins is over a guy who was flipping tires..."

(it's from the "backstage with Chael Sonnen", Ariel Helwani)

What's your opinion on that? Seriously, even Wanderlei's early UFC record was 1-2... And Cro Cop declined surprisingly and rapidly in UFC right after winning PRIDE GP. Is it possible that he was never that good?

I'm not saying I totally agree with Sonnen, I just think it's a good topic for conversation to clarify one thing or two.

Favorite fighters:
1. Badr Hari
2. Remy Bonjasky
3. Mauricio Rua
4. Anderson Silva
5. Alistair Overeem

Last edited by The_Senator; 07-08-2011 at 01:29 PM.
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post #2 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:33 PM
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Not that I'm saying this applies to these guys as well, but hasn't there already been controversy about Pride fixing fights?
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post #3 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:38 PM
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Chael doesn't agree with Chael.




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post #4 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:45 PM
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This would have been a decent thread if only you left Sonnen out of it.
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post #5 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:46 PM
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They don't 'suck', it's just in my opinion the sport has passed them by. Their styles won them fights 5 years ago. Now guys are learning everything they learnt over their career in 2/3 years (experience aside) and then continueing to develop. In current MMA, they are not that great, middle tier fighters. But that doesn't mean they should be respected any less.
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post #6 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 01:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anderton46 View Post
They don't 'suck', it's just in my opinion the sport has passed them by. Their styles won them fights 5 years ago. Now guys are learning everything they learnt over their career in 2/3 years (experience aside) and then continueing to develop. In current MMA, they are not that great, middle tier fighters. But that doesn't mean they should be respected any less.
Sonnen says Mirko didn't lose his motivation, he just sucks. I partially agree because he joined UFC after winning PRIDE GP rather easily, then looked defenseless against Gonzaga. He never looked that bad in PRIDE even when he fought Fedor, LHKs stopped landing completely... they never touched anybody in UFC. Why? Is it because Gonzaga, Kongo and Al-Turk have excellent defense? No.

Of course, these 3 guys still deserve respect no matter what.

Favorite fighters:
1. Badr Hari
2. Remy Bonjasky
3. Mauricio Rua
4. Anderson Silva
5. Alistair Overeem
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post #7 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 02:18 PM
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Different rules, different ring, different match up, different era, different primes. I think it's apples and oranges to me. How would they have done in UFC during that same time period? How would UFC fighters of that time would have done in pride? There are too many variables to make such a comparison a valid one.
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post #8 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Senator View Post
Sonnen says Mirko didn't lose his motivation, he just sucks. I partially agree because he joined UFC after winning PRIDE GP rather easily, then looked defenseless against Gonzaga. He never looked that bad in PRIDE even when he fought Fedor, LHKs stopped landing completely... they never touched anybody in UFC. Why? Is it because Gonzaga, Kongo and Al-Turk have excellent defense? No.

Of course, these 3 guys still deserve respect no matter what.
He didn't train in a cage till after the GG fight. Ring and cage are two different environments especially for a striker known for cornering his opponents. I was never on the Cro Cop hype train but the guy was a serious fighter. To make such a transition at such a late period of ones career can take your heart out of it, which obviously happened in a dramatic way with CC.

Quote:
Wanderlei's gonna go 22 straight wins in Japan and he can't win 2 straight in America? Mirko Cro Cop's gonna win all those fights in Japan and he can't beat anyone in America
Typical spin, again Sonnen for president! He makes it sound like Wandy was unstoppable in pride and came into the UFC undefeated, but the truth of the matter is in his last 8 fights in Pride, Wandy went 4-4 (two against open weight). Was he fed a few cans in his 22 win streak, sure, but most are fed a can here or there. He was on a decline when he entered the UFC, unfortunately from all the wars. Minotauro is another example of someone that is past his prime from all the damage taken, even though they are both relatively young.

Fedor got submitted by one of the (if not the) best HW submission fighters in the world, which is nothing to be ashamed of. His mistake is that he is still in pride mode which encourages action, as compared to the more strategic UFC/strikeforce style. Personally I cannot see Fedor "game planning" nor would I want him too. His other loss is against a giant that probably outweighed him by 40 pounds or more (if you factor in Fedor lumps =-)) that has a iron chin, decent striking and a monster on the ground. Again nothing to be ashamed of. I also believe that Fedor has been past his prime for about 3 years now and said so three years ago.

Last edited by Soakked; 07-08-2011 at 02:53 PM. Reason: edit: forgot to add HW
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post #9 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soakked View Post
Different rules, different ring, different match up, different era, different primes. I think it's apples and oranges to me. How would they have done in UFC during that same time period? How would UFC fighters of that time would have done in pride? There are too many variables to make such a comparison a valid one.
Wanderlei never looked great in UFC, in his debut in 90s he was brutally knocked out by Belfort, beat some guy, whom wiki doesn't even know, then lost to Ortiz and moved to PRIDE to build a career. Then he came back in 2007 and the same thing continued...

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post #10 of 66 (permalink) Old 07-08-2011, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soakked View Post
Different rules, different ring, different match up, different era, different primes. I think it's apples and oranges to me. How would they have done in UFC during that same time period? How would UFC fighters of that time would have done in pride? There are too many variables to make such a comparison a valid one.
And you could even make a case about Liddell. Guy runs through the UFC (with the exception of Couture), then comes in to Pride and loses to Rampage. Comes back to the UFC and gets another streak rolling. And although Rampage wasn't one of the guys Sonnen mentioned, he did get beat by Silva 2 times while in Pride.
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