Munoz: "Wrestling is the great Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu neutraliser" - Page 2 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:04 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Chael Sonnen's existence disproves this.

If you don't know BJJ then wrestling isn't going to prevent you from getting submitted. So it is completely false to claim that wrestling neutralizes BJJ. Wrestling+BJJ can dominate just BJJ or just wrestling in the same way kicking+punching can dominate either just kicking or just punching. BJJ is superior to wrestling if you actually only know one of them because it finishes fights.
I don't know why anyone else even posts their opinion after this! Seems pretty logical to me.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Now Sonnen is the best example we have? I hope not, he's a very poor one. He has stated that he doesn't want to learn BJJ, he's a republican.

As it stands now he's just a Jake shields without the jujitsu. One person who lacks in training and specifically submissions/submission defense is not who I would bank on to prove BJJ is more efficient than wrestling.

If anything we can just wait and see as Nick and GSP take the stage both fighters are superior to Sonnen in skill. GSP's is a better wrestler than Sonnen and he's not a homophobe so he's also got some sub defense. We'll see if his wrestling will be the deciding factor in the fight.

If something is effective for one fighter but for most everyone else fighting cant be replicated then Id say the reason its effective has more to do with the athlete than the style.

Dose Machida prove karate is now a viable base for MMA or dose he prove that its a viable base for Machida and not necessarily everyone....
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
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a good wrestler vs a Great jiu jitsu practitioner = Jitz guy wins

a great wrestler vs a good jiu jitsu practitioner= wrestler wins

a good wrestler vs a good jiu jitsu practitioner= wrestler wins

lb for lb wrestlers have the upper hand simply because of time limits and rounds.

trick is to have a background in wrestling and a black belt in jiu jitsu. Then you're pretty much ****ed =]
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Old 07-11-2011, 03:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Imagine Shinya Aoki with the wrestling base of say Jake Shields.

Frightening.
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Old 07-11-2011, 06:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MMAnWEED View Post
a good wrestler vs a Great jiu jitsu practitioner = Jitz guy wins

a great wrestler vs a good jiu jitsu practitioner= wrestler wins

a good wrestler vs a good jiu jitsu practitioner= wrestler wins

lb for lb wrestlers have the upper hand simply because of time limits and rounds.

trick is to have a background in wrestling and a black belt in jiu jitsu. Then you're pretty much ****ed =]
I think this is basically what Munoz is trying to say and it's true.

You don't need to be a wizard at BJJ if you have good wrestling, all you need are some fundamentals, especially on defense, to go with a really strong wrestling background and you will give BJJ guys a terrible time from the top, GSP is a perfect example.

Sonnen is a good example too, because he doesn't have even a decent level of sub defense, never mind overall BJJ, and he's a moron who is just too dumb to see when a sub is coming. I mean seriously, 7 times, who gets subbed 7 times with the same move and still calls himself a professional? Talk about a slow learner. If Sonnen had even average sub defense, he might be champ, but he doesnt, so he has a pile of losses.
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
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He says this this until he subbed by Silva I suppose???
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:57 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Finnsidious View Post
I think this is basically what Munoz is trying to say and it's true.

You don't need to be a wizard at BJJ if you have good wrestling, all you need are some fundamentals, especially on defense, to go with a really strong wrestling background and you will give BJJ guys a terrible time from the top, GSP is a perfect example.

Sonnen is a good example too, because he doesn't have even a decent level of sub defense, never mind overall BJJ, and he's a moron who is just too dumb to see when a sub is coming. I mean seriously, 7 times, who gets subbed 7 times with the same move and still calls himself a professional? Talk about a slow learner. If Sonnen had even average sub defense, he might be champ, but he doesnt, so he has a pile of losses.
i agree to some extent, sonnen has faced some very good black belts in bjj and while he was slow to learn sub defense i believe he does have it now

he was defending very will andersons attempt and even the last attempt he did the correct escape for the triangle, anderson just wouldnt let go of his arm and has freakislhy long legs, if he had shorter legs i think sonnen would have escaped the sub

not only that but nate has pretty good bjj, so does dan miller, and he did very well on the ground with them

the guy knows how to get out of a triangle or armbar, he just has a style that makes it easy to get caught, his GnP

his GnP gives bjj guys some serioys space to attempt armbars and subs, why does he give them that much space? because he just sits in their guard pounding on them instead of improving his position, so if he just stays in guard but isnt active the ref will stand them up (in theory, fitch doesnt give a shit)

if he just layed on guys like fitch or GSP does creating almost 0 space between them he wouldnt have been caught so much

at the end of the day i think sonnen knows how to escape tirangle and armbars, but he gives guys so many oppertunities to catch him that he ends up getting caught, thats his big mistake

you can be a bjj god but you still get caught daily in the gym, just becase you know bjj doesnt mean you dont get caught
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