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Old 07-13-2011, 11:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Any Pride Left?

I have no intent of insulting fans or fighters with this-

Is it because fighters crossing over from Pride are past their best that they arent having a huge impact in the UFC despite their earlier achievements or is it because America is far more stringent with testing?
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Old 07-13-2011, 12:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I think it is due to a couple of different issues.

1) Ring to Cage change - This actually could be seen as some, a la Crocop, couldn't force guys into corners anymore. Or as Rampage who had difficulty in his first fight partially due to additional space to move for his opponent.

2) Wrestlers - In Pride wrestlers weren't as dominate for the most part. Even then the wrestlers who had success were mostly Grecco who use tosses similar to Judo.

3) Grappling against the Cage - This one I think threw quite a few of them for a loop. They weren't used to having someone being able to hold them up against the cage where they couldn't just spin out.

4) The fighters - Now this isn't a dig at Pride in anyway, but even the best fighters fought some freak show fights for the fans or for a tourny. Some of the fighters most brutal wins are against who? Again, this isn't a dig, they have brutal wins over known people as well, but when they do highlight reels it typically takes a hardcore fan a few minutes to remember the odd person they soccer stomped to KO, etc.

5) Japanese Fighters - As a whole they did not move into the US market with the crash of Pride. Most of them went to smaller venues and are currently still trying to eek their way into a living. The few who have come over tend not to enjoy that much success so the urge to bring them over is even lower. I feel that with the lower weight classes in the UFC this might change.

These are my opinions and I am sure some will question them, but there you go.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
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A lot of the guys from PRIDE people expected to do well in the US were in their primes while fighting in Japan 4-8 years ago. Those 4-8 years just happen to have been an explosion in popularity for MMA, and there has been an unprecedented rise in gyms, fighters & techniques.

Training techniques are much better, especially since guys aren't knocking each other out in training every day now. But forget about that - The actual fighting techniques are vastly advanced to what they were for mma at the height of PRIDE. There is no surprize to me that name fighters from 4-8 years ago are having a hard time keeping up with fighters who have taken 1/100th of the damage they've taken and have been training with modern camps.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:26 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Pride fighters did pretty great in the UFC. Guys like rampage, shogun, big nog etc all became champions and destroyed the top fighters in the division at the time. Oh almost forgot the pride fighter who came over here and raped everyone and is considered p4p greatest fighter ever, Anderson silva. Some struggled but it was mostly just the changing of the guard and had little to do with pride or UFC, I mean look where the champs from the UFC then are now.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I wonder, who are those guys who do so bad in the UFC that did so good in PRIDE? I fail to name more than Wandy and CroCop.

Anderson, Henderson, Rampage, Shogun and Big Nog all did pretty good if you ask me.
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Old 07-13-2011, 04:52 PM   #6 (permalink)
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There are acceptions to the rule, i.e. Anderson Silva, Hendo, Rampage, Shogun, and big Big Nog. but in most cases, its this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdtcpl View Post
I think it is due to a couple of different issues.

1) Ring to Cage change - This actually could be seen as some, a la Crocop, couldn't force guys into corners anymore. Or as Rampage who had difficulty in his first fight partially due to additional space to move for his opponent.

2) Wrestlers - In Pride wrestlers weren't as dominate for the most part. Even then the wrestlers who had success were mostly Grecco who use tosses similar to Judo.

3) Grappling against the Cage - This one I think threw quite a few of them for a loop. They weren't used to having someone being able to hold them up against the cage where they couldn't just spin out.

4) The fighters - Now this isn't a dig at Pride in anyway, but even the best fighters fought some freak show fights for the fans or for a tourny. Some of the fighters most brutal wins are against who? Again, this isn't a dig, they have brutal wins over known people as well, but when they do highlight reels it typically takes a hardcore fan a few minutes to remember the odd person they soccer stomped to KO, etc.

5) Japanese Fighters - As a whole they did not move into the US market with the crash of Pride. Most of them went to smaller venues and are currently still trying to eek their way into a living. The few who have come over tend not to enjoy that much success so the urge to bring them over is even lower. I feel that with the lower weight classes in the UFC this might change.

These are my opinions and I am sure some will question them, but there you go.
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Old 07-13-2011, 05:29 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I like to look at it like this: LHW division - Chuck Liddell was UFC's LHW Champ, UFC's poster boy, and the main fighter held responsible for the UFC's rise. He fought 3 LHW's who came from Pride, he lost to 2 of them via KO1 and beat 1 via closely fought decision. Rampage took the belt when he KO'd Chuck, and Rua went on to win the belt after he KO'd Chuck, by knocking out the man who the UFC was hoping would be the new dominant LHW.

Any non-stylistic advantages you could think of went on Chuck's side - cage experience, cage tactics, crowd support, how the UFC works, knowing people within the company well etc, and he still lost brutally. Those are factors because they may have been taken for granted by guys like Liddell, but not having those things would have had an effect on the Pride guys, they were expected to make a big explosion with very little dynamite. I'm a Chuck fan and think he was that good, and I don't know how the 'Pride fighers aren't good' argument stands when you look at his record against them.

Just looking at one division is slightly narrow minded, but it encompasses 3 of the main 5 Pride fighters who did well in UFC. 4 if you count Hendo obtaining the Strikeforce LHW belt.
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Old 07-13-2011, 07:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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the biggest difference to me is that pride fighters, styles, conditioning, refereeing, ring and rules were all done with the intent of finishing fights. i might be wrong but it seems as if the pride guys had trouble adapting to win fights based on points. i think that if the situation was reversed alot of ufc guys would have failed to find success
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ok summing up 354354345345 other threads on this subject that have come before it

1.) Pride is Dead
2.) Some fighters did well when they came over some did not
3.) Pride was great to watch when it was on
4.) Pride was known to fix fights
5.) Some fighters could change to the octagon from ring/adapt to rules some could not

Im gunna close this thread for even though it is made in good attentions it will turn into pride vs ufc in very short time
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