Tito Ortiz: Legend, or Pioneer? - Page 3 - MMA Forum - UFC Forums - UFC Results - MMA Videos
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post #21 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:03 AM
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osmisium's post ignores so much context it is ridiculous.

Firstly, Tito doesn't have a ton of fights because back then the UFC was just starting and had cards only like 3 or 4 times a year, so for Tito to fight once or twice a year and dominate like he did was a big deal back then.

Secondly, I'm not sure where you are going with that whole 4-8 nonsense, especially considering most of those losses are when Tito was past it. After the Frank Shamrock fight, which was actually a really spectacular fight that was very competitive, Tito went on a stretch of fight title fights where he barely lost a round. It was like GSP before GSP.

Thirdly, Evan Tanner was essentially Forrest Griffin before Forrest Griffin. I find it funny that Forrest is being lauded as some amazing fighter and Tanner is being called shit. Why? Because Forrest is a more modern fighter, therefore is obviously better....you know with those guys back in the early 2000s, when they didn't even have the internet or anything and they were all inferior athletes.

Also, Shamrock-Tito 1....biggest fight in the history of the UFC at the time....and still is up there to this day.


Seriously, seems like osmisium started watching after Bonnar-Forrest 1 with some of these comments.

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post #22 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:05 AM
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Titos "championship" run, Wand, Kondo, Tanner, Elvis, and Vlad. Losses after ducking to Chuck twice and Randy, not to mention, Rashad, Machida, Forrest, and Matt Hamill of all people.

Tito was a weight cutting freak who is a frontrunner and a bully against smaller fighters when he had his "run". The dude should be fighting at HW and dwarfs even the biggest light heavies.

He won't even be top 20 in 4-5 years
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post #23 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:05 AM
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#4 only behind Liddell, Wandy and Couture. IMO he and Shogun are close for 4 and 5 and basically interchangeable.
We agree on the top four, Liddell, Wandy, Couture, and Shogun after that I would say Jackson, Evans, and Shamrock. Rashad's record is sick, even if I don't like the man personally even I have to admit his run as been incredible.

Quinton Jackson is longevity and consistency has to be taken into account, I think he's basically the same fighter today as he was 10 years ago Tito went years without a quality win that has to take a toll.

I think different strokes for different folks but Frank Shamrock's UFC run was insane, one of the greatest runs of a UFC champion ever.

For me Tito is in this third tier of guys, with Forrest Griffin, Dan Henderson, and Lyoto Machida I think you can put him ahead of them or behind them.

And I think that looking at Dan Henderson's current 6-1 run where he's beaten Franklin, Babalul, Fedor, Bisping, Paul Harris, and Cavalcante makes me think people should start looking at him as a 205 great.
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post #24 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Matt Hamill(Beat Tito)
Lyoto Machida(Beat Tito)
Chuck Liddelx2(Beat Tito twice)
Dan Henderson
Ricardo Arona

Those are some of the people Rampage has beaten. Quit hating on the real great fighters of the sport Tito isn't top 10 all time at LHW.
But wait I can discredit victories too!

Matt Hamill is terrible!

Lyoto Machida got ripped off and was coming off a knockout loss!

Chuck was jetlagged and then started partying too much in the 2nd fight and was washed up!

Henderson is a natural 185lber!

Ricardo Arona had dengue fever!


Also I can do the fighter X beat this person game too!


Rampage lost to Forrest for the title! Tito beat Forrest.

Rampage got KTFO by Wanderlei twice. Tito beat him easily.

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We agree on the top four, Liddell, Wandy, Couture, and Shogun after that I would say Jackson, Evans, and Shamrock. Rashad's record is sick, even if I don't like the man personally even I have to admit his run as been incredible.

Quinton Jackson is longevity and consistency has to be taken into account, I think he's basically the same fighter today as he was 10 years ago Tito went years without a quality win that has to take a toll.

I think different strokes for different folks but Frank Shamrock's UFC run was insane, one of the greatest runs of a UFC champion ever.

For me Tito is in this third tier of guys, with Forrest Griffin, Dan Henderson, and Lyoto Machida I think you can put him ahead of them or behind them.

And I think that looking at Dan Henderson's current 6-1 run where he's beaten Franklin, Babalul, Fedor, Bisping, Paul Harris, and Cavalcante makes me think people should start looking at him as a 205 great.
Hendo is a top 5 p4p fighter in my book, but I don't rate him as highly at 205. I think at 185 he's top 3 though.


Last edited by Roflcopter; 08-15-2011 at 12:10 AM.
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post #25 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:09 AM
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Lol at "only legit wins are Vitor and Forrest"

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post #26 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:09 AM
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#4 only behind Liddell, Wandy and Couture. IMO he and Shogun are close for 4 and 5 and basically interchangeable.



God, look Wandy just lost 6 or his last 8 he is horrible, Chuck lost 5 or his last 6 his entire career is meaningless, Randy Couture, hell that chump lost 3 of his last 6 and one was a BS decision over Brandon Vera. Hell I guess the entire LHW division sucks and nobody who ever fought in the division is a legend.

Evan Tanner was a former champion for gods sake, Shamrock was once one of the most feared fighters on the planet. Albeit Shamrock was already on the decline when he met up with Tito, it doesn't make it a wash.
Tito was losing those fights for the most part in his prime not when he is past the age of 40 or after his chin went. Evan Tanner was the champion of a joke division, never successfully defended his title, and never beat anyone good. Ken Shamrock sucked for the entire time that MMA was a legitimate sport and not no hold barred trained bum fights.
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post #27 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Matt Hamill(Beat Tito)
Lyoto Machida(Beat Tito)
Chuck Liddelx2(Beat Tito twice)
Dan Henderson
Ricardo Arona

Those are some of the people Rampage has beaten. Quit hating on the real great fighters of the sport Tito isn't top 10 all time at LHW.
I can play your game here, Machida was robbed, Chuck was past his prime, Dan Henderson is a MW and what the hell did Ricardo Arona ever do in mma? (here is a hint a hell of a lot less than over half the people Tito fought) Rampage also lost to Wandy twice (Who Tito beat) stole a BS decision against Ninja Rua (who is just plain awful), lost to Sakuraba who is every bit as awful as Shamrock. Hell Rampage couldn't even knock out Keith Jardine and everybody knocks out Kieth Jardine. If you refuse to be objective and leave logic out of the equation you can make all kinds of crazy arguements.




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post #28 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:12 AM
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I can play your game here, Machida was robbed, Chuck was past his prime, Dan Henderson is a MW and what the hell did Ricardo Arona ever do in mma? (here is a hint a hell of a lot less than over half the people Tito fought) Rampage also lost to Wandy twice (Who Tito beat) stole a BS decision against Ninja Rua (who is just plain awful), lost to Sakuraba who is every bit as awful as Shamrock. Hell Rampage couldn't even knock out Keith Jardine and everybody knocks out Kieth Jardine. If you refuse to be objective and leave logic out of the equation you can make all kinds of crazy arguements.
I beat you to it..

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post #29 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:14 AM
 
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I beat you to it..
I saw that, now you must pay...




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post #30 of 84 (permalink) Old 08-15-2011, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osmium View Post
Tito was losing those fights for the most part in his prime not when he is past the age of 40 or after his chin went. Evan Tanner was the champion of a joke division, never successfully defended his title, and never beat anyone good. Ken Shamrock sucked for the entire time that MMA was a legitimate sport and not no hold barred trained bum fights.
Pancrase and RINGS actually had a LOT of rules.

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