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Old 12-19-2011, 10:15 PM   #11 (permalink)
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No not yet.
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Is Machida a legend? No.

He is a very very good Light Heavyweight that has the style that perhaps no one else has. He is easily a top 5 LHW.

But with all due respect, he is not consider as a legend yet.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:42 AM   #13 (permalink)
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He "should...he really should." He posesses the skills and has the background to make for a movie story. Unfortunately it's marred by the latter part of his career so at the moment no.

He should have won against Rampage easily making him the #3LHW. It's a tank full of sharks. I think a Shogun who fights all out with fury in the first round can end Bones. It will not last five rounds. We've already seen Rampage, Machida, and Shogun get hurt pretty badly. Hendo is the only one with the chin and power + wrestling, but lacks the conditioning (age factor) to fight strong for the last two championship rounds. Otherwise it's Machida who has to fight a perfect fight.

When that time comes for Shogun to reclaim his crown I will put down $50. Shogun never loses a rematch and I'm sure the odds will be huge against em.
a whopping $50, huh? if you're that confident in shogun why don't you bet the house? i don't think shogun has ANYTHING AT ALL for jones no matter where the fight goes. he made him tap to strikes for ****'s sake, i think jbj would just humiliate him again

but this tread isn't even about shogun or jones for that matter, its about MACHIDA
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:30 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How on earth could someone say that Couture is not a legend...

Sure he wasn't the greatest fighter and lost his fare share of fights but the guy accomplished things few could dream of and had an extremely long and fruitful career. He beat Liddell, Belfort and Ortiz in their primes and was was champion of the HW division(weak division or not that is still an accomplishment). He was constantly counted out of fights but found ways to win or at least make the fights competitive.

Couture fought the who's who of MMA, Horn, Randleman, Barnett, Rodriguez, Belfort, Liddell, Lesnar, Nogueira, Machida. Those are quite the names(especially at the times that he fought most of them).

He isn't legendary for being the absolute best fighter but he is legendary because of everything he accomplished and for what he did for this sport.

As for Machida, no. He did help put Karate on the map and has beaten some tough guys but he still has a long ways to go to be considered a legend in my books.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:34 AM   #15 (permalink)
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How on earth could someone say that Couture is not a legend...

Sure he wasn't the greatest fighter and lost his fare share of fights but the guy accomplished things few could dream of and had an extremely long and fruitful career. He beat Liddell, Belfort and Ortiz in their primes and was was champion of the HW division(weak division or not that is still an accomplishment). He was constantly counted out of fights but found ways to win or at least make the fights competitive.

Couture fought the who's who of MMA, Horn, Randleman, Barnett, Rodriguez, Belfort, Liddell, Lesnar, Nogueira, Machida. Those are quite the names(especially at the times that he fought most of them).
Randy is a legend, but machida has also fought the who's who of mma. I'm not saying he is a legend yet, but he has defeated bj penn,rich franklin,evans,shogun,randy...he is fighting top level competition such as jon jones and page.

Randy is good for his time, but i think we need to reevaluate the word legend. Randy gets a pass because at that time he was fighting the best of the best. The sport has evolved, and i don't think anyone will become a legend any time soon. The only locks i have are gsp,silva, with jon jones soon to be.

In my mind the sport has evolved so much that guys that randy was beating back in the days would not be top 5 today. Its all hearsay, but i bet no one would say a prime chuck,tito, or vitor will beat machida.
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Old 12-20-2011, 02:08 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I think the term "Legend" is thrown around way too often in MMA by fans. That devaluates that word. Machida is without doubt a great fighter and among the top, but he hasn't achieved anything that you really could label as "legendary". He is still somewhere in the middle of his career, so its still possible that he becomes legendary.

In my book, to be considered a "Legend" there are different factors. One are the achievements in the sport. I think becoming the champ in one division and only defending the title once is not nearly enough. Another factor is popularity, and by that I mean popularity beyond hardcore fans. You should be a name to casual fans and even somewhat known to people that are not fans of the sport. Ali for example, he is known to people through all generations, boxing fans and non-boxing fans alike. For MMA fighters that's a hard thing, because MMA is not yet known like other sports, in particular outside the US/Brazil and maybe Canada. When it comes to talks about MMA with non-fans there are only a few fighters that got recognition (usually without the name). "that Russian guy who never loses" (Emelianenko), "that tiny Brazilian who won against all the bigger guys" (Gracie) and recently sometimes "that Brazilian guy" (Silva). That's about it from non-fans.

We should keep in mind that we MMA enthusiats live in a bubble and people outside this bubble know next to nothing about MMA, but Legends are those also the average people talk about.
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Old 12-20-2011, 03:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by marcthegame View Post
Randy is a legend, but machida has also fought the who's who of mma. I'm not saying he is a legend yet, but he has defeated bj penn,rich franklin,evans,shogun,randy...he is fighting top level competition such as jon jones and page.

Randy is good for his time, but i think we need to reevaluate the word legend. Randy gets a pass because at that time he was fighting the best of the best. The sport has evolved, and i don't think anyone will become a legend any time soon. The only locks i have are gsp,silva, with jon jones soon to be.

In my mind the sport has evolved so much that guys that randy was beating back in the days would not be top 5 today. Its all hearsay, but i bet no one would say a prime chuck,tito, or vitor will beat machida.
Legends are legends for what they did, not what they could still do. Couture has been around since nearly the beginning of the UFC winning the UFC 13 heavyweight tournament. He then went on to fight and defeat many of the top fighters of the day, held the belt multiple times in 2 different weight classes, opened one of the premier gyms in mma, created a clothing line to help promote mma, always fought the very best including current top 5 LHW and HW's, greatly influenced the sport of mma with his fighting style and has been an ambassador for the sport in movies etc.

Couture has been one of the single most influential fighters in the UFC/MMA and that is what makes him a legend. I would consider him top 3-5 for most influential MMA fighters of all time...

Machida has been a good fighter, he beat a couple good fighters and gave a couple more decent fights but that is it. Sure he was the first really successful karate based fighter but he still has a long ways to go to catch up to a guy like Couture who almost single handedly implemented and improved the most influential fighting style used in MMA for the past decade. Machida isn't a star, he is barely even a well known fighter outside of UFC fans, he has done little for the sport other then be a top 5 LHW fighter and honestly I don't see him becoming a legend unless he somehow can get back to the top of the food chain.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:12 PM   #18 (permalink)
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No, maybe if you're a fan of karate but certainly not for MMA. He is a great fighter and has great victories over Thiago Silva, Rashad Evans and Randy Couture but by no means has what hes achieved so far given him legend status. Unless he goes onto to pull off many more victories over top notch opponents and has another reign as champion he will not go down as a legend.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:31 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I don't have an opinion either way but on paper he has beat BJ, Randy, Franklin, Sokoudjou "who as someone at one point", Rashad, Shogun, Ortiz barely, Thiago Silva, and worth mentioning Bonner...

Not to mention some people think he beat Rampage. I think he lost that fight and to BJ which he fought at a Heavyweight, 225.

So he HAS fought in a different weight class and beat a lot of top guys. Not to mention he was undefeated until he fought Shogun, a "legend" Does it make him a HOF'er now? No? But I certainly think to some people he will go down as a legend because he has a pretty nice resume.

Not really a fan btw just stating facts...
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't have an opinion either way but on paper he has beat BJ, Randy, Franklin, Sokoudjou "who as someone at one point", Rashad, Shogun, Ortiz barely, Thiago Silva, and worth mentioning Bonner...

Not to mention some people think he beat Rampage. I think he lost that fight and to BJ which he fought at a Heavyweight, 225.

So he HAS fought in a different weight class and beat a lot of top guys. Not to mention he was undefeated until he fought Shogun, a "legend" Does it make him a HOF'er now? No? But I certainly think to some people he will go down as a legend because he has a pretty nice resume.

Not really a fan btw just stating facts...
Problem is most of the big names he has beaten were smaller then him(Penn and Franklin). Sokoudjou was never really any good. Couture was past his prime and he didn't really beat Shogun. He did a good job beating Rashad and Silva and had a very good fight with Rampage but that is about it. You can't give a guy legend status just because he was top 5 and beat a couple good fighters, they have to do a lot more then that or else we would have legends everywhere.

Machida is a good karate based fighter, nothing more nothing less.
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