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Old 12-20-2011, 03:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 420atalon View Post
Problem is most of the big names he has beaten were smaller then him(Penn and Franklin). Sokoudjou was never really any good. Couture was past his prime and he didn't really beat Shogun. He did a good job beating Rashad and Silva and had a very good fight with Rampage but that is about it. You can't give a guy legend status just because he was top 5 and beat a couple good fighters, they have to do a lot more then that or else we would have legends everywhere.

Machida is a good karate based fighter, nothing more nothing less.
Based on what you just said why is Chuck a legend? I don't really care if Lyoto goes down in history but who has Chuck beat? Horn lol... Randy who Machida also beat, Tito who he also beat, he lost to Rashad, he lost to Shogun, He lost to Rampage who Machida beat. So he really just beat Monson, Guy Mes, Babalu and a young Belfort who should have been fighting MW and also a young Overeem?
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:29 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't like the word legend, I can't think of any fighter that I would call a legend.. hall of famer sure

Anderson will be a legend but not just yet
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:31 PM   #23 (permalink)
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See you guys have randy as a legend because of what? I think randy is the most overrated fighter in mma history. THe man is 19-11 and his biggest win was over chuck who he lost to twice after that. I'm gonna play devil advocate, chuck and randy were the best in the ufc in that time. But there was a plenty of guys who would have gave chuck and randy a run for their money in pride.

He won his HW title beating Randleman, aside from 1 win over chuck and tito, and vitor who is a questionable a list fighter, who has randy really defeated?

Machida is 17-3 and is fighting in the most talent rich divsion in mma. Unlike back then the best guys are in the ufc. The thing is machida has a more impressive resume than randy imo. Its just the time period and circumstances which makes randy more accomplish.

If you look at it closly randy since 2007 has defeated cans and lost to legit fighters. 5-3 since 07....wins over toney,vera,tim,gonzaga,coleman....
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by systemdnb View Post
Based on what you just said why is Chuck a legend? I don't really care if Lyoto goes down in history but who has Chuck beat? Horn lol... Randy who Machida also beat, Tito who he also beat, he lost to Rashad, he lost to Shogun, He lost to Rampage who Machida beat. So he really just beat Monson, Guy Mes, Babalu and a young Belfort who should have been fighting MW and also a young Overeem?
It isn't always about rankings. And how good a guy was. I think we have a different meaning of legend.

The fact that Chuck Liddell basically saved MMA in the U.S. He was easily...easily the most popular fighter in North America. That has a lot to do with his legendary status.

It isn't all about the top guys being legends. People are legendary for different things. Not just being a top fighter.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:35 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jonnyg4508 View Post
It isn't always about rankings. And how good a guy was. I think we have a different meaning of legend.

The fact that Chuck Liddell basically saved MMA in the U.S. He was easily...easily the most popular fighter in North America. That has a lot to do with his legendary status.

It isn't all about the top guys being legends. People are legendary for different things. Not just being a top fighter.
Chuck was not the most popular fighter in north american, mma yes but fighter no.
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:36 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Chuck was not the most popular fighter in north american, mma yes but fighter no.
I meant MMA fighter....as we are on an MMA forum.

Gee Wiz
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:42 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I meant MMA fighter....as we are on an MMA forum.

Gee Wiz
since its mma i always wonder this...was chuck more popular than tito?
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Old 12-20-2011, 04:45 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Legendary status is akin to P4P status to me: it's completely subjective.

That being said, there are any number of criteria, in any combination, that can qualify a fighter for legendary status: wins, KO's, subs, marketability, opponents, length of career, personality, etc, etc.

Lyoto, in my opinion, isn't there yet. But he's well on his way. He won a championship; he brought new fans to MMA as he emerged to become the most popular Karate-based MMA fighter; he had a lo-o-ng win streak; he's fought quality guys.

If he can re-invent himself, perhaps at MW, put a win streak together there, and win a belt, he could qualify as legendary in my mind.

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Old 12-20-2011, 06:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthegame View Post
See you guys have randy as a legend because of what? I think randy is the most overrated fighter in mma history. THe man is 19-11 and his biggest win was over chuck who he lost to twice after that. I'm gonna play devil advocate, chuck and randy were the best in the ufc in that time. But there was a plenty of guys who would have gave chuck and randy a run for their money in pride.

He won his HW title beating Randleman, aside from 1 win over chuck and tito, and vitor who is a questionable a list fighter, who has randy really defeated?

Machida is 17-3 and is fighting in the most talent rich divsion in mma. Unlike back then the best guys are in the ufc. The thing is machida has a more impressive resume than randy imo. Its just the time period and circumstances which makes randy more accomplish.

If you look at it closly randy since 2007 has defeated cans and lost to legit fighters. 5-3 since 07....wins over toney,vera,tim,gonzaga,coleman....
Randy Couture is a five time UFC champion a record that will never be broken. He has wins over 6 former UFC champions same amount as Machida, though two of Machida's wins are over MW Franklin and WW/LW Penn. He started his career at 35 years old, an age that most fighters retire at. 7 of his 11 loses were to UFC champions, 3 of them to men who rank as top ten GOAT (Liddell, and Nog). His record "sucks" because he didn't have the early warm up fights to inflate his record, he won the UFC HW tournament on his first night in the sport, the UFC championship in his fourth fight...beating a future champ in Belfort before he became "questionable". And he did it all in an era where many fighters were doping.

He beat a 4-0 Vitor Belfort
He beat a 45-9 Jeremy Horn
He beat Kohsaka after his win and draws over Nog and Fedor
he beat a 12-1 Chuck Liddell
He beat a 10-2 Tito Ortiz, and broke him as a fighter
He broke Tim Sylvia's UFC 5 fight win streak, and the fighter
He beat an 8-1 Gabriel Gonzaga

His wins aren't as "impressive" as others because he didn't just win, he broke possible legends in the sport.

Now with all of that said, it's to soon to say what Lyoto Machida's legacy is. He's a fringe top ten all-time LHW fighter, for him to be a GOAT, he's either going to have to maintain position in the top five of 205 for the next few years, or drop down to 185 and win/contend for the title.
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Old 12-20-2011, 06:59 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcthegame View Post
See you guys have randy as a legend because of what? I think randy is the most overrated fighter in mma history. THe man is 19-11 and his biggest win was over chuck who he lost to twice after that. I'm gonna play devil advocate, chuck and randy were the best in the ufc in that time. But there was a plenty of guys who would have gave chuck and randy a run for their money in pride.

He won his HW title beating Randleman, aside from 1 win over chuck and tito, and vitor who is a questionable a list fighter, who has randy really defeated?

Machida is 17-3 and is fighting in the most talent rich divsion in mma. Unlike back then the best guys are in the ufc. The thing is machida has a more impressive resume than randy imo. Its just the time period and circumstances which makes randy more accomplish.

If you look at it closly randy since 2007 has defeated cans and lost to legit fighters. 5-3 since 07....wins over toney,vera,tim,gonzaga,coleman....
Did you read my post?

He held titles 6 different times and was a tournament champion as well. He was also the first fighter to hold championships in 2 different weight classes and has had the 3rd most fights in the UFC(only 2 back of Tito).

UFC 13: HW Tournament Champion
UFC Japan: HW Division Champion defeating Maurice Smith
UFC 28: HW Division Champion defeating Kevin Randleman
UFC 43: Interim LHW Division Champion defeating Chuck Liddell
UFC 44: LHW Division Champion defeating Tito Ortiz
UFC 49: LHW Division Champion defeating Vitor Belfort
UFC 68: HW Division Champion defeating Tim Sylvia

He fought and defeated many of the best MMA fighters in the world. Belfort, Horn, Randleman, Barnett, Liddell, Ortiz, Sylvia, Gonzaga, Lesnar, Nogueira, Machida many of which although nowadays don't look like great fighters were considered to be the best at the time they fought. He was also counted out in the majority of those matches as always being too old, too small or not good enough of a striker yet he always made fights close or found a way to win.

He opened up multiple mma gyms, started a clothing line, has appeared in major production movies(like The Expendables) and is constantly promoting MMA. Very few people have done as much as he has for the sport. Sure some guys like Liddell, Silva and GSP were/are probably better fighters but what have they really done for the sport other then win fights? Couture has helped get the UFC/MMA to where it is today and he played a large part in fighters incorporating wrestling into their fighting styles.

Machida beat a couple top 5 LHW's, held the LHW title for a match(even though he should have lost to Shogun) and has had a couple other decent fights. He has done nothing to promote MMA(other then promote Karate a little bit just by being successful) and hasn't had a great career himself losing 3 and arguably 4 of his last 5 fights...

Like I said before, a fighter becomes a legend for something he has done, not what he could do today. Royce Gracie is a horrible fighter but still should be considered a legend for what he did back in the day when he defeated the much larger guys and introduced BJJ into MMA. Another legend of MMA would have to be Dana White just for his ability to turn MMA into what it has become. Other then that I don't know that I would really claim anyone else to be a true legend. Guys like Liddell, Hughes, Penn, Franklin, Ortiz etc were all good fighters and helped get the UFC/MMA to where it is today but really they were only successful fighters and did little otherwise.
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