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Old 02-06-2012, 08:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Pros pick Diaz = 12
Pros pick Condit = 4

And obviously whoever has an opinion on Condit losing the fight is called a diaz fanboy, right...in case you couldn't tell... that was sarcasm.

Condit fanboys are relentless at calling anyone with an opinion that doesn't involve saying how great of a gameplan it was a diaz fanboy.

I'm neither a huge fan of Diaz or Condit, but a huge fan of GSP. Just pointing out the facts how I see them.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:22 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.Bone View Post
I've wathced it 3 times now. I'm baffled as to how you can say the standup was even after admitting Carlos got the better hits off, which in my eyes was for the majority of the round. Yes Nick got the TD but he wasn't able to do much after that and Carlos even ended up on top at the end of it.

And Nick may have been pressing forward but he was eating shots whilst doing so.

Edit: Also what edlavis88 said above me is very true. That's a purely subjective argument and I understand people see things completely differently.
Yes I agree Condit got the better of the stand up in round 5, however your previous post states 'condit was tagging him for 3.30' which sounds like it was a completly one-sided. In actual fact Diaz was pressing the whole time and tagging condit with good shots himself.

My main point was that none of this 'tagging' was anywhere near as significant as Nick getting the only TD of the fight and achieving back mount - one of the most dominant positions possible in MMA. He then proceeded he agressively work for a sub until the round was nearly over and he had to gamble.

I personally scored this fight 48-48 DRAW. But how people can give Condit round 5 I really dont understand.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:34 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by AmdM View Post
Your all argument of a guy making the other run after him thus controlling where the fight takes place equaling octogon control is totally BS.
Condit was backpedaling/running from corners because he was afraid of Diaz, therefore Diaz dictate that Condit ran for his life.
I stayed out of the stickied Diaz-Condit discussion since it was already so massive and I didn't want to read it all.

But I would hope someone would have pointed out by now that moving forward and scoring is aggression, the fourth and least important scoring criteria for the NSAC, not octagon control.

Nick didn't control the pace, place and position of the fight because he was almost always following Condit instead of cutting him off.


Quote:
L. Criteria Evaluation
1. Each judge is to evaluate which fighter was most effective. Thus striking and grappling skills are top priority.
2. Evaluating the criteria requires the use of a sliding scale. Fights can remain standing or grounded. Judges shall recognize that it isn't how long the fighters are standing or grounded, as to the scoring the fighters achieve ,while in those positions.
3. If 90% of the round is grounded one fighter on top, then:
-effective grappling is weighed first.
-clean striking is weighed next. If clean strikes scored in the round, the Judge shall factor it in. Clean Striking can outweigh Effective Grappling while the fighters are grounded.
-octagon control is next (pace, place & position)

The same rational holds true if 90% of the round were standing. Thus:
-clean striking would be weighed first (fighter most effective)
-clean grappling second (any takedowns or effective clinching)
-octagon control which fighter maintained better position? Which fighter created the situations that led to effective strikes?

If a round was 50% standing and 50% on the ground, then:
-clean striking and effective grappling are weighed more equally.
-octagon control would be factored next

In all three hypothetical situations, effective aggressiveness is factored in last. It is the criteria of least importance. Since the definition calls for moving forward and scoring, it is imperative for the Judges to look at the scoring first.
For octagon control, "Which fighter created the situations that led to effective strikes?" Diaz tried to do that by cornering Condit, which he rarely succeeded at, then raising his arms and saying, "Stokton muther****er!" when he failed. Carlos actually created them by circling away and picking Diaz apart.
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:56 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Im not even sure the 1st 2 rounds werent closer than people are making it out to be. Fight metrix already said that these were the most leg kicks landed in the history of the UFC. Granted they might not do significant damage everytime they land but they do score points. Lets face it Condit said it best, if he fought Diaz's fight then Diaz would be champion. We forget its called mixed martial arts. Diaz didn't really do anything other than attempt to clinch and stalk Condit while talking more than triple the shots he dished out.

That being said I thought that the first minute or so in the 5th round that Diaz did land several leg kicks on Condit that I thought surprised Condit and then Carlos had control until he got taken down. SO I thought it could have gone either way.

As far as Octagon control, I understand that Diaz walked him down, but Condit circled out (or "Ran" occording to some ridiculous people)and took the center of the Octagon. I really don't get how people just expected Condit to stand and bang with someone that can take a hell of a shot and come forward. Diaz boxing is superior to Condits, so why would he box with Diaz.

Funny how Shogun (won) the first fight with Machida because most couldnt understand how the leg attacks didnt count. Now its called running. Diaz wanted Condit to trade and couldnt do anything to counter what Condit was doing in there. If condit ran and didnt land anything of note then why was Diaz looking more worse for ware?
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Old 02-06-2012, 08:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by "El Guapo" View Post
Yes I agree Condit got the better of the stand up in round 5, however your previous post states 'condit was tagging him for 3.30' which sounds like it was a completly one-sided. In actual fact Diaz was pressing the whole time and tagging condit with good shots himself.

My main point was that none of this 'tagging' was anywhere near as significant as Nick getting the only TD of the fight and achieving back mount - one of the most dominant positions possible in MMA. He then proceeded he agressively work for a sub until the round was nearly over and he had to gamble.

I personally scored this fight 48-48 DRAW. But how people can give Condit round 5 I really dont understand.
It's not that he controlled the round prior to the TD (which he did anyway) it's how effective he was for that time.

Basically I think he was able to utilize his strengths standing for most of the last round whilst Diaz wasn't fully able to utilize his. I mean he took his back but then Carlos defended 2 sub attempts. Just my opinion man.

Edit: FTR I don't think it was one sided at all. If Diaz had landed more before the TD he would've taken the round for sure.

Last edited by T.Bone : 02-06-2012 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:12 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Hmmmm... Dan henderson
Pat Militich
Matt Lindland
Jens Pulver

Four of the fighters that I respect the most All think Diaz won.

I will watch again without sound and reconsider.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:19 AM   #27 (permalink)
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First time I watched:
Round 1: 10-10
Round 2: 10-9 Diaz
Round 3: 9-10 Condit
Round 4: 9-10 Condit
Round 5: 10-10

Gonna watch it again this evening.. Maybe I'll feel different. I don't think I'm going to change my mind.
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Old 02-06-2012, 09:46 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I agree with Sideways 100%. He couldnt be more right with his post. Going forward while getting hit constantly is not a smart way to fight.
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Old 02-06-2012, 10:51 AM   #29 (permalink)
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looked like Condit landed more but also looked like his punches/kicks did less damage. pretty much never Diaz looked to be in trouble.
Nick's attacks seemed to me to be more powerful + Carlos's running sort of showed that it was the case.

IMO running with your back towards opponent should be point deductible - especially to this extent. Angling and footwork is one thing but full on running is something else
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Old 02-06-2012, 12:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
 
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They only picked those fighters in the OP for the way they wanted it to look.


Where is Bas Rutten one of the most respected analysts and fighters in the sport? iaz.
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