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-   -   Tommy vs. Ben (http://www.mmaforum.com/ultimate-fighter-tv/27477-tommy-vs-ben.html)

cplmac 11-28-2007 11:02 PM

Tommy vs. Ben
 
Great fight for Tommy, and a lot of heart from both fighters. I don't think I've ever seen someone pull out of an armbar that deep before and in all honesty I don't think I want to again. To come out of that nasty armbar and fall straight into a pretty good triangle and to pull out of that too, man impressed isn't even the word. I think Dana is right on that if Tommy can get in with a good camp the sky is the limit. And Ben, would he have won if he wasn't sick? I don't think so, but it is definitely possible. So, what were your thoughts on these two fighters coming into this fight and what is your opinion of them coming out of it?

UseOf_A_Weapon 11-28-2007 11:07 PM

i was more impressed with the armbar resistance than i was with tommy escaping the triangle. it was a good triangle, but tommy's positioning allowed him to slide out. You can tell from the instant ben catches him with it that tommy is just gonna pull out. not that any of it mattered... tommy didnt do anything from the top. Ben was pulling submissions out of his a$$ from the bottom.

i dunno. seems like most of the wreslters fighting these days take the sean sherk approach to fighting.

okimherenow2 11-28-2007 11:12 PM

Well I didn't really care for this fight all that much. Tommy did have some nice takedowns but he didn't really do much GnP. Ben had some nice sub moves going for him. I cant believe that the ref didnt stop it on that armbar cus it was sick. All in all I thought it was kinda boring but thats just my thought.

Demigorgon 11-29-2007 07:14 AM

I officaly HATE wrestlers. And I was a wrestler. Props to Tommy for staying cool and keeping his head in the game but damimt, I'm sick of these wrestlers getting in there, continualy taking a guy down a dry humpimg them for 10/15 minutes. I do not want to see Tommy anymore. I would rather see Ben fight again even though he lost. Take downs are easy. You should not get points for a atakedown ffs.

x2lacrosse 11-29-2007 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demigorgon (Post 401121)
I officaly HATE wrestlers. And I was a wrestler. Props to Tommy for staying cool and keeping his head in the game but damimt, I'm sick of these wrestlers getting in there, continualy taking a guy down a dry humpimg them for 10/15 minutes. I do not want to see Tommy anymore. I would rather see Ben fight again even though he lost. Take downs are easy. You should not get points for a atakedown ffs.

While I wouldn't say that I hate wrestlers, I completely agree with your stance about them. I've always thought that wrestlers are the best building blocks for a complete fighter, but with the explosion of MMA and especially the GNP, I don't think wrestlers are taking full advantage of their background. It doesn't seem as if they're willing to learn all aspects of the ground game, just get the takedown, throw some hammers and elbows and hope for a dazzling TKO.

NavyChief 11-29-2007 10:33 AM

Hmmm....looks like I am the only one so far that acutally thought it was an entertaining fight?

I really thought that Tommy stayed very busy most of the time. There were lapses here and there but not as bad as several of the other fights. For an amatuer/close to pro fighter (my own class...don't crucify me..ha)I was impressed w/the way he held his wits during that arm bar. That thing was sunk in hard but not once did it look like he was gonna do anything but fight out of it.That's why Mazagatti let 'em go. He was watching Speers eyes the whole time (I have always thought Steve was one of the best refs in the Octagon). The triangle was not such a total threat but still...one wrong move and he could have been caught. Tommy did in fact land some pretty solid shots (even while in a pretty decent guard from Ben). He also kept Ben totally out of being able to even mount an attack (although Ben did anticipate that immediate shoot when the 3rd started...Speers is lucky that knee missed).

All in all I really see Speers being the type of guy who can duke it out, take it to the ground, GnP, pretty much wherever. Does he need some training? Of course he does. Who wouldn't? But he, imo, shows potential to really grow into a very good UFC fighter.

mma17 11-29-2007 10:34 AM

Ben's subs were decent and i respect tommy for not tapping but all in all i wasn't impressed with both of them. They both gassed, ben can't finish a submission because he doesn't know how to arch back with the arm bar to extend it and he can't slide his hips over to square up for the triangle. Tommy can't pass guard. I think with training Ben would actually be the better fighter. I don't think tommy's striking can ever get very good because he isn't built to be a striker.

NavyChief 11-29-2007 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mma17 (Post 401202)
Ben's subs were decent and i respect tommy for not tapping but all in all i wasn't impressed with both of them. They both gassed, ben can't finish a submission because he doesn't know how to arch back with the arm bar to extend it and he can't slide his hips over to square up for the triangle. Tommy can't pass guard. I think with training Ben would actually be the better fighter. I don't think tommy's striking can ever get very good because he isn't built to be a striker.

Tommy didn't really look gassed to me. He was tired of course, but maybe you and view gassed with a little more variation (umps do the same thing calling the zone..). Not sure what arm bar you saw...but the one I was looking at was bending said arm backwards at a pretty nasty angle.

mma17 11-29-2007 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavyChief (Post 401297)
Not sure what arm bar you saw...but the one I was looking at was bending said arm backwards at a pretty nasty angle.

It was THE arm bar..it wasn't bent back that bad. It could have been bent back worse if Ben would have arched more.

kilik 11-29-2007 02:38 PM

I cant believe Tommy didnt tap that was locked in at some point, thats two fights in a row where he has been locked in a sub and hasnt tapped, he is tough.

If that ref was Big John he would of stopped the fight because I remeber a fight it was din thomas vs jeremy stephens where Din had a armybar locked in and big john ended the fight before jeremy tapped.


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