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Old 09-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #1701 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by M.C View Post
The only thing that matters in a game is how fun the game is to you personally.

There are multiple FPS games in the world, you have "hardcore" FPS games like Unreal Tournament/CS/Quake for that crowd, you have lesser skilled FPS games like BF3/COD for the casual/average gamer crowd.

Saying that COD is "one of the worst online games ever made" and that it "must be 85% children playing" is stupidly ridiculous. So you guys play "hardcore" FPS games, good for you guys, there are games out there specifically designed for you, have a blast playing them. Why would you even want to go around calling another game, suited for a completely different type of player/skill level, "horrible"? I mean honestly it doesn't matter, it's just an opinion, but sometimes it feels like people forget that you're discussing video games here, not politics, who cares what games other people like, cause trust me, nobody cares about what games you like or what your "skill level" is - it's all about just having fun.



The fact that you even consider comparing a video game to a sport makes this discussion silly and nonsensical. It's a video game, dude. They are here for fun and enjoyment, if that means you need to feel like you're competing at a high level, then by all means feel that way, but realize that you're a minority of gamers and that most people really don't care about the elitist PC FPS players playing Quake - gamers just want to enjoy a hobby (most of them).
High level gaming is considered an e-sport and you would be shocked to see how popular competitive gaming really is. Real sports are also here for our fun and enjoyment, that is also their purpose. A League of Legends tournament (currently the most popular game and e-sport game in the world) gets around 500,000 views from spectators watching on the internet.

Starcraft competitive players in Korea are worshipped as actual celebrities. 5 years down the line I will promise you that competitive gaming will be broadcast on a big enough television company. It's sky rocketing right now, it's ridiculous.

If sports like Darts can exist as an actual sport, then there is no reason gaming can't either. The top level games take good hand eye co-ordination, ultra quick decision making, intelligence and a strong mentality. Can gamers be compared to MMA atheltes and olympic athletes? Absolutely not, but just like Darts players, they can still be considered sportsmen.

And all online FPS players are playing for the same purpose, competition. The goal is to beat the other players and win. Over the top, randomised mechanics have no place in any competition.

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Old 09-26-2012, 09:01 PM   #1702 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
High level gaming is considered an e-sport and you would be shocked to see how popular competitive gaming really is. Real sports are also here for our fun and enjoyment, that is also their purpose. A League of Legends tournament (currently the most popular game and e-sport game in the world) gets around 500,000 views from spectators watching on the internet.

Starcraft competitive players in Korea are worshipped as actual celebrities. 5 years down the line I will promise you that competitive gaming will be broadcast on a big enough television company. It's sky rocketing right now, it's ridiculous.

If sports like Darts can exist as an actual sport, then there is no reason gaming can't either. The top level games take good hand eye co-ordination, ultra quick decision making, intelligence and a strong mentality. Can gamers be compared to MMA atheltes and olympic athletes? Absolutely not, but just like Darts players, they can still be considered sportsmen.
Yes, you and the 500,000 elitist gamers can watch and play that game, while the 6.5 million people who bought MW3 just on the first day, the game that grossed over 1 billion dollars within the first 16 days, relax and enjoy the casual/average FPS game. Everyone wins.

You have your set of "hardcore FPS/competitive games" and everybody else has their set of more relaxed FPS/competitive games, where it's a lot more about having fun than it is who is best and what kind of extreme balance there is.

So, again, what's the problem? Two groups of games designed for two different types of players.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:26 PM   #1703 (permalink)
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You keep throwing out the word elitist to put us down but you are the one with a stick up your ass. Noone is arguing that millions of people enjoy playing Call of Duty. The only thing I argue is that FPS games made for competitive gaming are generally better, more diverse, more complex, more exciting and much more rewarding to put down time playing and getting better. This is because of a lot of things, including freedom of movement, importance of tactics and communication, no random game factors, the ability to understand and manipulate sound, and a perfect hitbox among many other things. The games are also more unforgiving than the casual games so as a result it makes you concentrate more, making the game more intense.

If you look at all these factors it's pretty clear to me that a game like Quake or Counter-Strike 1.6 is far superior to the Call of Duty games. That is all I'm saying. If people wanna play MW3, more power to them. But I think if Valve could get the same kind of marketing behind CS:GO (which won't be held back because of the graphics like 1.6 would be for a lot of people), then they would give CoD a serious run for their money. It's human nature to thrive, to practice in order to get better, to beat your friends and feel the thrill and the excitement to clutch a close round for your team.
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:39 PM   #1704 (permalink)
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Anyways, I asked my question/gave my opinion on the matter, I think it's nonsensical and silly to be anti-COD like Grapple is simply because it's more popular/has more players (which is Valve and other companies fault for not advertising/marketing their games as much), and because it is designed for a different kind of player base. I had no idea asking a question about why Grapple hates COD so much would get into this whole thing, let's all move on, or at least I am, it's off topic anyways.
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Old 09-27-2012, 07:01 AM   #1705 (permalink)
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There are purely objective ways to judge a video games mechanics without being elitist what so ever. Some games are superior to others, based on their in game mechanics and it's as simple as that.

For example, Halo: Combat Evolved (the very first one) is in my top three, possibly my favourite all time Multiplayer game ever. I rank it above Quake as far as the experience and fun I had with the game. I had my friends round every week and we would LAN the game and play for hours. We did this for years and loved it.

How ever....objectively judging Halo CE's gameplay mechanics compared to a game such as Quake - Halo is quite simply the inferior game. It's less balanced, less skillfull, less varied and less competitive. That's judging both games objectively, how ever, due to my personal experiences, I'd have to say I had a better time playing Halo CE, but for different reasons as to the actual quality of the game.

Halo CE isn't superior to Quake in any way shape or form, but due to the circumstances when I was playing, I had a fantastic experience with it.

Also, you do realise that I was referring to League of Legends' spectator numbers and not player base numbers right? League also has a bigger player base than any call of duty game out there, much bigger. It has over 32 million registered players.

Objectively judging Call of Duty's mechanics to a game like Counter-strike (two games in the same genre), it's quite clear which game has the superior mechanics and which game as the weaker ones.

It's like comparing Checkers to Chess. One game is simply superior and more sophisticated than the other. In this example, Call of Duty is checkers, and counter strike is Chess.

It's as simple as that.

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Old 09-27-2012, 07:28 AM   #1706 (permalink)
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I tend to agree with M.C. on this.
I think it's silly to say that CoD is a bad game, because of the 'random game mechanics'. If CoD didn't have killstreaks, perks etc. I doubt I'd even be playing that game as much as I did, because for me, that is what made the game fun. Sure, when I played it, I played it to win, but more importantly, I played it to have fun and pass some time. If I did it solely for the purpose of competition, I would've participated gamebattles (where there aren't any perks, killstreaks and such btw) or played CS.
I do agree though that the skill gap between good and bad players in a game like CS is bigger than a game like CoD, which is also one of the reasons I don't play CS but play CoD. Obviously, no one wants to get demolished at a game, and it takes more time to get good in CS than CoD, and as a casual gamer, who only plays video games just a couple of hours a week, I prefer CoD. I just wouldn't have time for a game like CS. I did play it A LOT some years back, and the reason why I played it is because I had more free time.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:05 AM   #1707 (permalink)
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I tend to agree with M.C. on this.
I think it's silly to say that CoD is a bad game, because of the 'random game mechanics'. If CoD didn't have killstreaks, perks etc. I doubt I'd even be playing that game as much as I did, because for me, that is what made the game fun. Sure, when I played it, I played it to win, but more importantly, I played it to have fun and pass some time. If I did it solely for the purpose of competition, I would've participated gamebattles (where there aren't any perks, killstreaks and such btw) or played CS.
I do agree though that the skill gap between good and bad players in a game like CS is bigger than a game like CoD, which is also one of the reasons I don't play CS but play CoD. Obviously, no one wants to get demolished at a game, and it takes more time to get good in CS than CoD, and as a casual gamer, who only plays video games just a couple of hours a week, I prefer CoD. I just wouldn't have time for a game like CS. I did play it A LOT some years back, and the reason why I played it is because I had more free time.
Addressing the last part of your post about getting demolished by veterans of the game - that is definitely a problem with games like CS, but there is a very simple solution, and I'm not sure why developers haven't solved the issue.

All it takes is a working ranking/matchmaking system to ensure that all players are being matched up against similar tiered players. That way, the casual gamers get to compete against the casuals and the upper tier players play against each other. Every one is having fun, and no one should be getting stomped on by players not on their level. This is definitely a reason which hurts the popularity of the game and developers need to look into creating solid ranking/matchamking systems.

I'd bet you though, if you played CS right now against players on your skill level, or with a bunch of your friends, you'd have just as much fun, if not more fun than call of duty. A lot of it does come down to the level of competition you're facing, no one likes getting destroyed by players with lots of time on their hands.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:34 AM   #1708 (permalink)
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My biggest thing with COD is its community is always talking about how COD is the best and how it has the most skilled players and people that say otherwise must just be bad at COD. Not really responding to a particular person in this thread, but the COD community is very elitist and it makes it a joke.

Even the skill gap between COD and BF3 is enormous. I get people pick the game they like and that's cool. But the COD community does this to themselves when they look down on everything else even though they play the easiest fps on the market.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:35 AM   #1709 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by GrappleRetarded View Post
Addressing the last part of your post about getting demolished by veterans of the game - that is definitely a problem with games like CS, but there is a very simple solution, and I'm not sure why developers haven't solved the issue.

All it takes is a working ranking/matchmaking system to ensure that all players are being matched up against similar tiered players. That way, the casual gamers get to compete against the casuals and the upper tier players play against each other. Every one is having fun, and no one should be getting stomped on by players not on their level. This is definitely a reason which hurts the popularity of the game and developers need to look into creating solid ranking/matchamking systems.

I'd bet you though, if you played CS right now against players on your skill level, or with a bunch of your friends, you'd have just as much fun, if not more fun than call of duty. A lot of it does come down to the level of competition you're facing, no one likes getting destroyed by players with lots of time on their hands.

A good point, but imo, in a game like CS it wouldn't work as good as in CoD. When I did play CS back in the day, the things I liked about it was the servers. I bet you and some of your buddies had a server you played on all the time and so did I. And with time you get used to playing there, because the people you play with pretty much stay the same. It was like playing with a bunch of friends. Match-making takes that away. Though who knows, it's been a while since I played it, maybe the community has changed.

And sure, I'm not even denying I would have fun if I played CS now. Hell, that was the game I grew up with pretty much. Still, it's a game where the better you get at, the more competitive and fun it is.
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Old 09-27-2012, 09:39 AM   #1710 (permalink)
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I hope the cod franchise dies a slow, painful death. It is single handedly responsible for the destruction of the FPS genre I came to know and love.

What happened to FPS Multiplayer games focusing on balance, challenge and a skill gap? **** that, let's give you an automated helicopter reigning death on your enemies because you got 5 kills in a row! Congratulations!

I really despise cod, and long for the days where CS, Quake and Unreal Tournament were the pinnacle of FPS gaming.
wait what? skill gap not in COD lol, thats why when i play with my team we win almost every game cause we have been playing for years with each other and develop tactics and strategies

helicopters are a joke and if you see them as a problem that just shows your skill in this particular game. Helicopters in our game never even reach the battlefield.

there are huge skill gaps in cod but if all you do is talk in a particular game forum of play a particular series you would not know that.

everytime i play a series for a long period of time i start to get blinded fanboyism where i think its the game that takes the most skill and all around best game, did it when i used to pay quake, did it again when i played halo and cod then i realized that unless i play all the games in a hardcore nature for a period of time i cant talk the one is te best ect.

in cod you have to realize also that different game types there are different skill gapes, games types with objectives imo have a bigger skill gaps but again thats imo probably cause all i play anymore on cod is S&D
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