bbjd7

What Mir does during Faber's fights isn't done in every sport. It's really crazy. The guy is a great fighter but he isn't half the fighter Mir makes him out to be and it is pretty hard to watch.

The other guys don't really bother me much except Rhino Marshall but that's just the fact he sucks and the WEC whole LHW divison sucks.

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IronMan

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okimherenow2

I agree with you some of the WEC champs and fighters are really good.

I guess you should slap me b/c I don't see why he is all that good. He is only good at one thing and that's BJJ, his standup is a joke and it is painful to see him try and stand. He is undefeated but that's not saying much, there are alot of fighters that are who undefeated and are not worth a damn. I have seen all his fights and I really don't see why ppl are all over his nuts.

bbjd7

Ironman would you agree however that Mir overrates Faber since he acts like he is the 2nd coming and no matter what is happening in the fight?

I think Varner, Torres, Condit, Faber, and Filho are all excellent fighters however I think that Mir goes over the top when discussing Faber and Condit.

And I personally think Marshall sucks but that whole divison is terrible.

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IronMan

That's like saying that Babalu's just a BJJ guy. Firstly, you have to understand that saying Filho's good at BJJ is an understatement. He's a wizard on the ground, he stays calm, cool and collected and basically epitomizes the Gracie mentality. At least in my mind (and I may get some flak from my friends in the BJJ community) he's the next Rickson Gracie.

My comparison goes beyond the level of BJJ, (though I don't think that Filho's as technical as Rickson was when Rickson hit the big stage, more of a young Rickson, getting used to full contact over in Brazil, but still doing phenomenally) because both are phenomenal wrestlers. Part of that comes from years of grappling, and part of that comes from their comfort with pulling guard when their sprawled on. The only time I've ever seen Paulo fail to do that is against Sonnen, and he got his back taken, but he survived that position just fine.

His striking might look like a joke, because it's not the technical, aggressive muay thai we're used to seeing out of Brazilians nowadays. The fact is, that's not what he needs to win fights, because he's not built like a technical thai striker. He doesn't have the long arms and legs to control distance or use that spider guard off of his back the way that Silva does, and most people think that, as a result of that, Silva is a more technical fighter. The fact is, Filho bases his game on an entirely different weapon, and this is what takes me back to the comparison to Rickson Gracie.

When Paulo is standing up, he does something that Rickson didn't really do because he so rarely fought wrestlers, and that's brawl. Paulo uses that brawling to work his way into the clinch and show opponents that he's not afraid to go toe-to-toe. He's hurt alot of guys that way, and it's one of the reasons why his jiu-jitsu is so effective, because his opponents are a little bit dazed and intimidated by his strikes.

Honestly, watch Filho's fights from Pride. I recommend his fights with Chonan and Misaki, as those are the ones where we've really seen his submission game mature (and the use of his tricept hook, where he catches his opponents upper arm, which is something that alot of Brazilian guys neglect in MMA, but he's starting to pick up on it). He's got better ground skills than Silva and a serious chin, even better than Henderson's in my opinion, but I still think Anderson is a better fighter.

Still, I think that Filho is a force, and if you watch those fights (or his fight with JoeDoe) I think you'll understand what I'm talking about. He shows an incredible level of improvement between fights and I personally find it very impressive that he hasn't just settled into a winning strategy. He slipped a little bit in the Sonnen fight, and I think he learned alot, even over the course of that fight. One thing is for sure, that's not a mistake I expect him to make again.

I agree with that, but I think that he does it because he has to, not necessarily because that's what he thinks. You have to remember the position that he's in as a color commentator.

Joe Rogan is the same way. He's a smart guy and actually a decent practitioner (though obviously not a pro like Mir) but he says things that he probably knows are a little ridiculous in discussing his fights.

The only guy who really gets away with this stuff in his commentary, and I think that's partly because Pride got bought out so he's not really answering to anyone anymore, is Frank Trigg, and while I wish Mir could be that candid, I think that it's the Zuffa management preventing that, and not his intelligence.

It's really important to remember what Condit and Faber are to this division as champions. They are guys that have been absolutely dominant in their careers in the division, and the WEC wants people to know that these guys are really the real deal. While it's obvious to many of us hardcore fans, it's not to alot of people.

I think that the power Faber displays has gotten alot of attention, and while he's generally a nice guy and a good fighter, I find him technically lacking in alot of areas, and wish he had an opponent strong enough and good enough at wrestling and BJJ to punish him for that, but that's simply not going to be the case until he fights a guy like KID or Sudo, and I think that alot of the guys in the WEC know that.

As for Condit, I think Condit's the exact opposite of Faber, and I think that's the reason why people like him, because he's not strong, but he is technically monstrous, and that makes it fun for people to watch, because they get to watch this tall, lanky, ridiculous looking guy (and Condit does look like an awkward, early-pubescent boy who's muscles really haven't filled in) kick the holy sh*t out of people.

Personally, I like watching both of the guys, but I think that the WEC relies heavily on them to get attention, and the fact that I only like, not love, watching them fight says alot about what that means for the WEC. There are some guys, Torres, Marcus Hicks and Brian Stann, that I just find incredibly fun to watch fight, and all I really have to respect Condit and Faber on are their dominance in their divisions. The WEC counts heavily on that, and they want to remind us of it constantly.

Do I think it's beaten over the head? Absolutely.

Do I understand why? Yeah. And I'll deal.

In case you didn't notice, I have Brian Stann on my fantasy team, and part of that is because I think he'll kick the holy sh*t out of Marshall. The fact of the matter is, Marshall is a brawler who managed to submit a boxer with no real jiu-jitsu on the ground. While I think that it showed Marshall had some technical skills, and certainly showed some improvement, there are alot of holes in that groundgame that I've seen just from that 55 second fight, and I agree that he's got a long way to come.

That said, I think that Stann will establish himself as a dominant champion and over the next 18 months, if he continues to progress the way he has in his first few fights (which, technically, have shown huge improvements in the game of an already impressively aggressive fighter), I think that we'll see some other guys come out of smaller shows and we'll see Stann smash them and work his way into an arguable top ten spot (though not a certain one) and possibly fight to unify that title.

We'll see, I'm putting alot of hope in Stann, but I think that if he establishes himself with a big win over Marshall, he'll really be a great leader for this division.

But, to answer the implied question: yes, right now the division sucks harder than Jenna Jameson.

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bbjd7

I think you might've gone a little overboard in comparing Filho to Rickson but I get it and it makes sense although Rickson BJJ is on a whole different level than Filho.

Rogan is bad at times but I don't think anyone compares to the way Mir speaks of Faber. I think Condit is a legit bad ass so I don't mind when he talks about him as much but the Faber talk is so over the top it is crazy.

I agree and I hope that they start to push Jamie Varner who is ten times more fun outside the cage than both Faber and Condit.

I think Stann has a ton of potential but right now is just potential. He is the best fighter in the divison right now IMO but that isn't saying much.

However I would say that he isn't the best LHW prospect in the WEC since the just signed NCAA wrestling champion Mark Munoz.

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IronMan

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bbjd7

No I understood your point I was just saying that Rickson had better BJJ IMO than Filho and that it's not even that close. But I get what youa re saying about his stand up being for him to win on the ground and not for him to win standing.

That's why I said Munoz is a better prospect. Stann will win the title when he gets a shot since Rhino blows and will defend it easily IMO until Munoz gets some wins under his belt. But I think his wrestling will be trouble for not only the WEC LHW divison but possibly the MMA LHW divison depending on how big he is since I really can't tell from the videos I've seen how he would match up with the LHW's in the UFC.

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IronMan

That's true, but it's also important to remember that Rickson's BJJ was just alot better than everyone elses. While I won't dispute that he's the top jiu-jitsu mind in the world (at least, actively instructing, as Helio is still with us), his game in the early sport was relatively rudimentary, as was Royce's. It's important to remember that guys like Filho are working in an age where we have developed alot of the nuance that they didn't have back then.

For instance, Filho's attack game is much more versatile, much more aggressive. While he does finish strictly with armbars, he also has a much wider use of setups and attacks than Rickson does. We never saw Rickson using can openers and north south moves, and we saw a very limited guard game. It's a different time and a different sport. Filho isn't getting to fight guys who don't know jack-sh*t about BJJ, and he's still thoroughly dominating him on the ground.

It's not so much a not about Filho's raw ability in BJJ. It's hard to imagine that we can give anyone credit for doing what Rickson did in BJJ (even Marcelo failed to make the transition to MMA). In that respect, no one is comparable.

Still, you get what I'm saying.

Yeah. Like I said, that's a long way off, and I think he's an interesting prospect, but I'm still curious as to how he'll translate. Not everyone does that well. He might, and his athleticism probably will, but we'll see.

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