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The Title Guy
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Which is rather ironic considering that with Trump's business friendly policies they are probably making more money right now they they were under the Obama era. But then again the Obama era was fully encompassed by a recession in which business growth was stagnant. Also Jesus was crucified by the Jewish Sanhedrin and Roman officials.
 

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Premium Member
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What's wrong with businesses making money? Scientific progress, job markets, wages, health insurance and many key things people rely on come from the private sector. People act like they would be happier and better off if corporations were destroyed and all the jobs, health insurance, wages and innovation they provide were eliminated. That's not necessarily the case.

The Obama era was a special case in several different ways.

Treasury secretary Henry Paulson was in charge of the TARP bank bailout in 2008. Prior to becoming US treasury secretary, Henry Paulson was CEO of goldman sachs who paid him a $45 million dollar bonus.

You can bet "money changers" alive during Jesus era had connections to ruling elites in a similar fashion.
 

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The Title Guy
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I don't think the left is against people necessarily making money per se because they all make money and benefit from big money, they just don't want the average person to make money and become independent. They want people dependent on the system so they have the power. Independent people means they have little to no power.
 

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These people above dont have anything against corporations in china or europe.

They only want to cripple and kill american business.

Many americans are very enthusiastic and happy to help them.

Its what celebrities and fake news tell them they should be doing. They don't think for themselves.
 

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The Title Guy
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You know I recently found out that socialism was tried in the initial colonial effort and it failed miserably, so it failed on a small scale. I was initially in the camp that it works on a smaller scale but that clearly is not the case and of course these people are lazy. Antifa people are extremely lazy and the CHAZ is a perfect example of it.
 

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Are they blaming socialism for the jamestown colony disaster now? Hilarious and sad if so.

Socialism is usually an inferior system for a variety of reasons.

Its just that the media, socialists and the state are all allies on the same side. Which allows them to repress much of the negative information relating to how socialism is a horrible system.
 

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The Title Guy
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Yeah the fact of the matter is it's a bad system because it assumes that everyone is going to work for the betterment of society. The problem is that there are some lazy people out there along with mediocre workers compared to harder workers. In capitalism gets what one puts in. Like for example I currently do Instacart, I get what I work for.
 

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When I think about it.

Nearly everything that's ever bad in my life could be traced back to socialism and the left.

My past neighbors who couldn't afford to put screens on their windows. That can be traced back to socialism and the left. So can a lot of the negative attitudes and mentalities I've come across.

People talk about things like socialism/capitalism as if it were some random game that doesn't affect them.

Real socialism/capitalism are things that affect you and me on every level.
 

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The Title Guy
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Yeah the left has been trying to manufacture a crisis and they succeeded by making a tense situation with the quarantine and then the spark was George Floyd's death. All the tension boiled over and now it's continually ongoing. Something ironic I found out is that Minneapolis cannot abolish or de-fund their police due to the city charter.
 

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When I think about it.

Nearly everything that's ever bad in my life could be traced back to socialism and the left.

My past neighbors who couldn't afford to put screens on their windows. That can be traced back to socialism and the left. So can a lot of the negative attitudes and mentalities I've come across.

People talk about things like socialism/capitalism as if it were some random game that doesn't affect them.

Real socialism/capitalism are things that affect you and me on every level.
Funny you say that because, nearly everything bad in my life has been attributed to capitalism.

But for the sake of balance heres some good things about socialism, or at least socialistic elements of society in America

Policing
Fire services
Free use of parks and museums
Roads/Highways
Medicare
Education
Libraries
Social Security (you know that thing every self-respect 'Anti-Commie' pensioner likes to collect when they retire)
Clean streets
And much more that I can't think off from the top of my head, and even more if you live outside the US

Heres somethings that was not brought to you courtesy of socialism

Countless recessions
Wage suppression
Job losses
Monopolies
Pollution
Lobbying (Corporate bribery/corruption)
Economic instability
Unfair balance of wealth, and getting worse
Poverty, over a billion people in the world are in poverty because of Capitalism, 40 million of them Americans
 

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The Title Guy
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The problem with your talking about all of the following socialist policies is that they aren't socialist policies:

Policing
Fire services
Free use of parks and museums
Roads/Highways
Medicare
Education
Libraries
Social Security (you know that thing every self-respect 'Anti-Commie' pensioner likes to collect when they retire)
Clean streets
And much more that I can't think off from the top of my head, and even more if you live outside the US

These are service provided by the government and funded by taxes which virtually every nation has to some degree. And this varies to some degree because the US is one of the few nations where compulsory education is free.

Also with regards to your criticism of capitalism is that all the major technological advances have been possible because of capitalism. Because of capitalism a company needs to compete for the consumers money. In order to do that they need to come up with either a better service or superior product to sell to the consumer. Like for example even stuff like military or government equipment in the US is manufactured by private companies who still need to compete for a government contract. It's still a free market economy. And even healthcare is that way because the consumer will go to the healthcare provider who has the better service. Look at anything created recently: entertainment, different types of food, smart phones, tablets, various other computers, haircuts, cars, the list goes on were created because of innovations in technology that required convincing the consumer to buy something. That is how it works and it makes it possible for someone with a good idea to become a billionaire. I maybe wrong but I do believe that most stuff we use today was not manufactured as a result of socialism where things are stagnant.
 

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Super Moderator
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The problem with your talking about all of the following socialist policies is that they aren't socialist policies:

Policing
Fire services
Free use of parks and museums
Roads/Highways
Medicare
Education
Libraries
Social Security (you know that thing every self-respect 'Anti-Commie' pensioner likes to collect when they retire)
Clean streets
And much more that I can't think off from the top of my head, and even more if you live outside the US

These are service provided by the government and funded by taxes which virtually every nation has to some degree. And this varies to some degree because the US is one of the few nations where compulsory education is free.

Also with regards to your criticism of capitalism is that all the major technological advances have been possible because of capitalism. Because of capitalism a company needs to compete for the consumers money. In order to do that they need to come up with either a better service or superior product to sell to the consumer. Like for example even stuff like military or government equipment in the US is manufactured by private companies who still need to compete for a government contract. It's still a free market economy. And even healthcare is that way because the consumer will go to the healthcare provider who has the better service. Look at anything created recently: entertainment, different types of food, smart phones, tablets, various other computers, haircuts, cars, the list goes on were created because of innovations in technology that required convincing the consumer to buy something. That is how it works and it makes it possible for someone with a good idea to become a billionaire. I maybe wrong but I do believe that most stuff we use today was not manufactured as a result of socialism where things are stagnant.
Before I go further I need to define what I mean by socialist policies. A socialist policy is an policy that is paid for via taxes and controlled via the government rather than a private company. Trix blurs the lines when he talks about socialism because he always refers the far left, Communist type ideologies, the type where common ownership is the means of production. Most developed countries have a mixed economy, which incorporates a free market and a command economy (which is a type of socialism) where the government controls other aspects such as security, maintenance and education.

Everyone of those services could be provided by a private company. But they are paid via taxes. Some people will never need the Fire Service, some people never walk in parks, or go to a library. These services are paid for via tax payers regardless, people accept them even if they have never used them because they are embedded in the American mentally. People understand that despite them not using certain services, they are there if they do want them and they appreciate the fact that other people do use and sometimes need these services. I find it incredible that Americans can look at other countries who provide more comprehensive socialist policies and call them Commies or some other derogatory remark when core of America itself is based on the same system.

The US is one of the 'few' countries where compulsory education is free? Mate I'll think you'll find its free in every country thats not a 3rd world country. Many countries also provide free University as well and even more provide it at a low cost.

I agree with with most of the rest of what you said, that is the positive side of capitalism. I didn't enter the discussion to shit on capitalism, just to provide some balance to the argument.

Heres some food for thought for you. How many of the products and services that you listed have their roots in socialistic policies? How many people who work for those technology companies would get a job their if they did not receive free education? Even hairdressers get some form of classroom based training (at least in the UK they do). Then how many people would even go to shops if people did not clean the streets and there was junk, smell and rats everywhere, hell people wouldnt even be able to get there if the roads were not maintained.
 

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Premium Member
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Funny you say that because, nearly everything bad in my life has been attributed to capitalism.

All of human progress and elevated standard of living has been produced through capitalism.

Here are a few simple examples.

-AMD vs intel produced considerable innovation and advancement in computing markets.
-Capitalist Space X has produced considerably more innovation and progress in aeronautics and space exploration in contrast to socialist NASA which is trying to steal credit for the EMDrive they didn't design or build, last I saw.
-Private run (capitalist) schools are always considerably superior in contrast to public run (socialist) school systems.
-The only real efforts to fight climate change have come from capitalism and corporations like Tesla.

How could capitalism make anything worse, when all the inventions, progress and innovation we enjoy today are products of capitalism.
 

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The Title Guy
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16,994 Posts
Yeah let's not forget that the average Chinese and Indian are slowly getting a higher standard of living because of recently implemented capitalist policies. China especially is finding a steadily growing middle class and their wages are going up to the point they are having to outsource to Africa.
 

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Super Moderator
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All of human progress and elevated standard of living has been produced through capitalism.

Here are a few simple examples.

-AMD vs intel produced considerable innovation and advancement in computing markets.
-Capitalist Space X has produced considerably more innovation and progress in aeronautics and space exploration in contrast to socialist NASA which is trying to steal credit for the EMDrive they didn't design or build, last I saw.
-Private run (capitalist) schools are always considerably superior in contrast to public run (socialist) school systems.
-The only real efforts to fight climate change have come from capitalism and corporations like Tesla.

How could capitalism make anything worse, when all the inventions, progress and innovation we enjoy today are products of capitalism.
As I said above, I acknowledged that much good has come from capitalism. But your statement about 'All of human progress and elevated standard of living has been produced through capitalism' is plain incorrect.

  • AMD vs intel produced considerable innovation and advancement in computing markets​
    • NASA essentially created the demand in this area with the Apollo program

  • Capitalist Space X has produced considerably more innovation and progress in aeronautics and space exploration in contrast to socialist NASA which is trying to steal credit for the EMDrive they didn't design or build, last I saw​
    • More innovation than the original space program? The program the saw countless spin off technologies utilised. NASA itself has created dozens of technology at use in the private market today. If a company like Tesla or Apple had developed these technologies they'd all be under strict patents, lawyers ready to pounce ant any entity using something that even resembles one of their patents. It is said that during America's space program, technology progression advanced by decades. ""Apollo 11 was one of the most inspiring things in all of human history," he said. "I'm not sure SpaceX would exist if not for Apollo 11." - Elon Musk.​

  • Private run (capitalist) schools are always considerably superior in contrast to public run (socialist) school systems.​
    • You would always expect some thing you pay for to be better than something that is free, unless its the US health industry were talking about. Private schools are great, good education where you'll make good contacts for the rest of your life all paid for by your wealthy parents. If you love the class system then you gotta love private education​

  • The only real efforts to fight climate change have come from capitalism and corporations like Tesla​
    • There are some companies that take it seriously like Tesla, the vast majority do not, and even those that are seeking to reduce emissions, do so for no other reason than to improve their public image​
 

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The Title Guy
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    • There are some companies that take it seriously like Tesla, the vast majority do not, and even those that are seeking to reduce emissions, do so for no other reason than to improve their public image​
Well they are working towards better environmental practices partially because that's the direction things are working towards.
 

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Super Moderator
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Well they are working towards better environmental practices partially because that's the direction things are working towards.
Very few companies are actually 100% committed to the cause.

I was born with asthma, its not really bad but one thing I have noticed was that during the peak of the lockdown my chest has become 100% better, the little blue inhaler you see asthmatics with, I haven't used it in since April, I would usually take it at least once a day. The reason for this is because there is less shit in the air now from factories and vehicles. I've did a search on this and millions of people in the UK have reported the same thing, people needing hospitalisation because breathing difficulties has dropped during this period (other than Covid).

The evidence seems pretty clear to me, the shit that gets pumped into the air is having a bad effect on humans, and if its effecting people then surely it must be effecting other animals and nature. The sooner the human race its get is shit together and starts using electric vehicles and draws its energy demands from renewable sources the better.
 

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The Title Guy
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Well we need to define truly renewable resources because some of what is touted as renewable energy actually isn't in the long term. For example wind turbines are now renewable and a lot end up in a landfill in Kansas because the turbines can't be broken down and recycled. Not to mention they actually kill a good number of birds annually.
 

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Super Moderator
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Well we need to define truly renewable resources because some of what is touted as renewable energy actually isn't in the long term. For example wind turbines are now renewable and a lot end up in a landfill in Kansas because the turbines can't be broken down and recycled. Not to mention they actually kill a good number of birds annually.
90% of them are recyclable, I've even heard they may be a way to recycle the blades which is the biggest non-recyclable component. They last for 30 years, I'm sure if there was mass drive to start using them now, we can figure the recycling issue out in the next 30 years or so. They may kill a few birds but its minuscule compared to other human inventions like the window which can kill up to a billion birds per year due to them smashing into them, hell the other day I though someone had thrown a rock of my childs window until I went outside and there was a dead bird.
 

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The Title Guy
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Well I was talking specifically about the blades and my point is that right now it's not renewable and right now are sitting in landfills in Kansas. Also I have issue with environmentalists wining and complaining about things like the poultry industry and other stuff while making excuses on the blades. Either be consistent or stop being a hypocrite (the nutty environmentalists, not you Spite cause you're reasonable).
 
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