Mixed Martial Arts Forum banner
1 - 20 of 87 Posts

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
mmaweekly's HW rankings.

#1 Heavyweight Fighter in the World: Brock Lesnar

2. Fabricio Werdum

3. Fedor Emelianenko

4. Cain Velasquez

5. Junior Dos Santos

6. Shane Carwin

7. Alistair Overeem

8. Frank Mir

9. Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

10. Brett Rogers

First of all how is Werdum ahead of Dos Santos, who beat him and hasn't lost since. I also think Velasquez should be ahead of Werdum and Fedor, but that's not opinion that doesn't have another side to the argument. #7 spot is Overeem? He already lost to Nog. He's not beat any good HWs, the only guy he's beaten that's ever been ranked is Rogers. Brett Rogers is awful. Which brings me to #10. This is the one that puts me over the edge Brett Rogers? Are you kidding me. There's a lot of guys who can go at that 10 spot, but Rogers ain't one of them. Put Silva or Nelson but Brett Rogers should have never been ranked and never should be again.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
769 Posts
Those rankings are bad for sure, but I disagree with you when it comes to Overeem. He is not the Overeem of old, he's the Ubereem of new. I would almost venture to say that all his fights in LHW are irrelevent, and we should judge him solely on how well he's done in K1/MMA since he mysteriously gained an unbelivable amount of muscle. He's an absolute beast at the moment, and I'd hesitate before saying he couldn't beat anyone in the top 5 HW in the world. I believe he would destroy fedor now, Lesnar would have the tools to win (but easily could lose too), Fabricio wouldn't even be close to able to submit Overeem now unless the fight went right to the ground, Cain would stand about a 50/50 chance. JDS would stand a shot for sure, he's a beast also.

Just my opinion, but of course we'll never know when Overeem is fighting cans like Rogers (I agree with you, Brett should definitely not be on the top ten even close. Top 20, sure, but I'd venture to bet Lashley could even beat him).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,570 Posts
Yeah there looking at the fact that Overeem and other guys are title holders or fighting for a title, but not the skill set...

If Cain or JDS went to SF they would be the title holders... Its horrible ranking indeed
 

·
-NOW YOU SLEEP-
Joined
·
10,940 Posts
Brett Rogers shouldn't be on that list at all.

Mind you I don't think he's a can. Because TBH I don't see 90% of world HW fighters getting past Fedor or Overeem. But back to back stoppage losses are 2 stoppage losses. Period.
 

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Brett Rogers shouldn't be on that list at all.

Mind you I don't think he's a can. Because TBH I don't see 90% of world HW fighters getting past Fedor or Overeem. But back to back stoppage losses are 2 stoppage losses. Period.
I don't think he's a can, but he's not even on Kongo's level. He's about where Shaub is now.

Brock
Cain
JDS
Overeem
Fedor
Carwin
Werdum
Mir
Nog
Nelson/Barnett

This is my TOP!
How is Fedor higher than the guy who just beat him.

Those rankings are bad for sure, but I disagree with you when it comes to Overeem. He is not the Overeem of old, he's the Ubereem of new. I would almost venture to say that all his fights in LHW are irrelevent, and we should judge him solely on how well he's done in K1/MMA since he mysteriously gained an unbelivable amount of muscle. He's an absolute beast at the moment, and I'd hesitate before saying he couldn't beat anyone in the top 5 HW in the world. I believe he would destroy fedor now, Lesnar would have the tools to win (but easily could lose too), Fabricio wouldn't even be close to able to submit Overeem now unless the fight went right to the ground, Cain would stand about a 50/50 chance. JDS would stand a shot for sure, he's a beast also.

Just my opinion, but of course we'll never know when Overeem is fighting cans like Rogers (I agree with you, Brett should definitely not be on the top ten even close. Top 20, sure, but I'd venture to bet Lashley could even beat him).
I don't see that Overeem has done anything at HW. Beating Brett Rogers is no big deal. K-1 kickboxing doesn't mean anything in mma. You don't get ranked in mma for what you did in another sport. James Toney doesn't get ranked for his boxing career, he will be ranked solely on his mma career, as Steroideem should. Yes he has big muscles, and is a good striker, but that doesn't rank him high. He's never beaten an elite level. Since his steroid induced growth, he's never fought a guy with a ground game. I don't see how he can be ranked high.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
769 Posts
I don't see that Overeem has done anything at HW. Beating Brett Rogers is no big deal. K-1 kickboxing doesn't mean anything in mma. You don't get ranked in mma for what you did in another sport. James Toney doesn't get ranked for his boxing career, he will be ranked solely on his mma career, as Steroideem should. Yes he has big muscles, and is a good striker, but that doesn't rank him high. He's never beaten an elite level. Since his steroid induced growth, he's never fought a guy with a ground game. I don't see how he can be ranked high.
I see what you're saying for sure. What I'm basically saying is that his striking is easily top 3 in the division, and while his ground game is untested, I think that his newfound strength (definitely roid induced) would help him significantly. We need to see Overeem fight some much better competition, but based solely on his striking ability and immense strength I predict that he would do exceptionally well against most fighters. Is he #1? obviously not, but he's definitely in the top ten. Like I said before, I see him annihilating Werdum and even Fedor. The dream matchup would be him vs. JDS... that would be fireworks.
 

·
NO. 1 *BONER*
Joined
·
7,727 Posts
I don't think Overeeem should be ranked that high, Fedor should not be ahead of Werdum, but I agree that Barnett is once again legit and should be at least number ten!
I rank Fedor higher becuase i consider him better.
I rank Overeem that high because i believe his hype.
The guy is unbeaten in 3 years almost...and even if his opponents haven't been that good (some - cans), he has destroyed them. Only Buentello made it to the second round and that was at the beggining of "Ubereem":).
He has one of the best striking out of the HW Top 10, has a pretty good ground game and is very powerful. He is dangerous. But i would like to see him tested against the UFC elite. And i don't think i am the only one. :) I think he would be in line for the belt ...easily.
Oooh...and Barnett. Tons of talent and skill. It's a shame all those qualities are being used/wasted like this.

How is Fedor higher than the guy who just beat him.
Simple! He is better! I gave credit to Werdum, in all those hundreths threads about his fight with Fedor. But i think he is not better than Fedor. No way. Beating Fedor...doesn't automatically make Werdum a better fighter. In that case..why is Werdum higher than JDS, a guy that destroyed Werdum?!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
7,811 Posts
Even though all the rankings are worthless to discuss.. I would say that this list is the best so far!

I only disagree with Rogers being number 10. All the others are just fine when you consider that you just can not rank the HW devision correctely.
 

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I rank Fedor higher becuase i consider him better.
I rank Overeem that high because i believe his hype.
The guy is unbeaten in 3 years almost...and even if his opponents haven't been that good (some - cans), he has destroyed them. Only Buentello made it to the second round and that was at the beggining of "Ubereem":).
He has one of the best striking out of the HW Top 10, has a pretty good ground game and is very powerful. He is dangerous. But i would like to see him tested against the UFC elite. And i don't think i am the only one. :) I think he would be in line for the belt ...easily.
Oooh...and Barnett. Tons of talent and skill. It's a shame all those qualities are being used/wasted like this.



Simple! He is better! I gave credit to Werdum, in all those hundreths threads about his fight with Fedor. But i think he is not better than Fedor. No way. Beating Fedor...doesn't automatically make Werdum a better fighter. In that case..why is Werdum higher than JDS, a guy that destroyed Werdum?!
I understand you think Overeem is good because of potential, until he shows that he can beat a good HW, I'm not convinced. To me Overeem is an unknown, but he hasn't beaten anybody and doesn't deserve to be ranked high. On paper Fedor is better than Werdum, but that's why they fight. Werdum beat him so he outranks him. It's like that in all sports: 2004 Lakers vs Pistons, Douglas vs Tyson, 1984 USA vs USSR hockey. All these were foregone conclusions ahead of time. If an athlete rises up and takes a hold of occasion, than he's better. Werdum should be ranked ahead of Fedor, because he earned it.
 

·
NO. 1 *BONER*
Joined
·
7,727 Posts
I understand you think Overeem is good because of potential, until he shows that he can beat a good HW, I'm not convinced. To me Overeem is an unknown, but he hasn't beaten anybody and doesn't deserve to be ranked high. On paper Fedor is better than Werdum, but that's why they fight. Werdum beat him so he outranks him. It's like that in all sports: 2004 Lakers vs Pistons, Douglas vs Tyson, 1984 USA vs USSR hockey. All these were foregone conclusions ahead of time. If an athlete rises up and takes a hold of occasion, than he's better. Werdum should be ranked ahead of Fedor, because he earned it.

I understand your logic.
But that would mean another thing; JDS should definitely be ranked higher than Werdum. Just think of it: since that fight JDS is on a destruction path. He has destroyed all of his opponents. He should definitely be ahead of Werdum.

I see these rankings more like in tennis. :) Nice comparison, huh?! :) You can lose some matches...and still be considered better than your opponent.
PS: imagine if fighters were to fight like tennis players: 100-150 fights/year :laugh:


As far as Overeem is concerned, you make a good point. He is an unknown. But, he has the tools to be up there with the big boys no doubt. He just needs to prove it. That's why i am all for him joining the UFC.
PS: i think he would have ended Brock if he was in Carwin's place.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
Why do people put so much time into rankings????

They mean shit.

Time and time again a lower ranked fighter has beaten a higher ranked fighter and the other way around.

Lets just enjoy the fights and stop worrying about who has who ranked where.


And to be honest the HW division is always the hardest to make rankings for because of the thin talent pool. Or do we all need to be reminded that Andre Arlovski was at one time #2 in the world by beating the likes of well nobody good.
 

·
Abusive
Joined
·
1,806 Posts
Why do people put so much time into rankings????

They mean shit.

Time and time again a lower ranked fighter has beaten a higher ranked fighter and the other way around.

Lets just enjoy the fights and stop worrying about who has who ranked where.


And to be honest the HW division is always the hardest to make rankings for because of the thin talent pool. Or do we all need to be reminded that Andre Arlovski was at one time #2 in the world by beating the likes of well nobody good.
They are fun, plain and simple. I've said it time and time again, I wish MMAF would create rankings.
 

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I understand your logic.
But that would mean another thing; JDS should definitely be ranked higher than Werdum. Just think of it: since that fight JDS is on a destruction path. He has destroyed all of his opponents. He should definitely be ahead of Werdum.

I see these rankings more like in tennis. :) Nice comparison, huh?! :) You can lose some matches...and still be considered better than your opponent.
PS: imagine if fighters were to fight like tennis players: 100-150 fights/year :laugh:


As far as Overeem is concerned, you make a good point. He is an unknown. But, he has the tools to be up there with the big boys no doubt. He just needs to prove it. That's why i am all for him joining the UFC.
PS: i think he would have ended Brock if he was in Carwin's place.
Dang this is the second sports analogy tonight that I don't really understand. First soccer now tennis. I really don't know how the tennis ranking system works, so I can't comment. Traditionally fighter rankings have been based solely on wins, losses, and who they were to.

PS I think if overeem was in Carwin's place he would have already been on his back being GNP'd.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,828 Posts
They are fun, plain and simple. I've said it time and time again, I wish MMAF would create rankings.
They are fun to make but I cant stand all the crying when a fighter is ranked over another fighter. Like Werdum and JDS. Sure JDS beat Werdum, but Werdum just beat the gut that was ranked #1 in the world for like 10 years. Putting him at #2 isnt all that bad, but a lot of people are crying about it.

In the big picture it means nothing. Rank'em where ever the f#ck you want just dont cry about another persons rankings.
 

·
Super Ultra Great Delicious Wonderful
Joined
·
6,517 Posts
The Grim doesn't belong in the top 10 but he looked decent against Fedor. The only fight where he looked terrible was against Overeem who you seem to think isn't any good. Nelson doesn't really deserve to be in the top 10 either for winning a reality show filled with cans and beating Struve. Bigfoot hasn't beaten anyone. CroCop should actually be 10 which really shows how weak the division is once you get past the first 6 or so.

How is Overeem an unknown he has had 45 MMA fights? He is definitively the best HW striker in MMA, has a decent top game on the ground, and is mediocre off of his back. Why should Mir or Carwin be ahead of him? Mir turns to shit every time he gets hit and Carwin can't last more than a round and both have fought considerably less talented people over their careers.

We know way more about Overeem's skills versus talented fighters than pretty much every other heavyweight. He isn't going to look competent to great against the best kickboxers in the world and suddenly get outstruck by Brock Lesnar, fighting doesn't work that way. Strengths and weaknesses in technique are translatable just because Overeem hasn't fought the best HWs in the world doesn't mean we don't know what he is better and worse than them at.
 
1 - 20 of 87 Posts
Top