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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I say this because UFC socre the take downs and looks at the control....


But, there are a lot of fighters who are more comfortable on their backs, and are willing to take the hits so they can submit their fighter.... but thats not counted in UFC, it's really only looked at on who is on top....


So, should UFC count submittal attemps also?
 

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daman5 said:
I say this because UFC socre the take downs and looks at the control....


But, there are a lot of fighters who are more comfortable on their backs, and are willing to take the hits so they can submit their fighter.... but thats not counted in UFC, it's really only looked at on who is on top....


So, should UFC count submittal attemps also?
Yes, the UFC is geared towards wrestlers, however fighting is geared towards wrestling. If you can take somebody down and rain punches down on them you have the advantage, even if those punches are not as strong because you are in somebody elses gaurd.

The most dominant person in pride is a wrestler, and in pride the rules are less geared towards wrestling than the UFC, the cage and elbows really help wrestlers.

I think that submissions count when they work because you submit your oppennt. However if you try for submissions and fail they are still counted because it count for agression. Although I dont think they give as much credit to the guy on the bottom as they should.

I would hate to see a drastic change in the scoring to give the advantage to grapplers, I would however like to see the refs bring the fight back to the feet faster than they usally do when you have a lazy wrestler on top.
 

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If the submission guy wanted to be on his back, is put there, and doesn't do anything from there, should he get points anyways? Of course he got put where he want, but if he can't successfully submit his opponent, what good was it to be in this position? You most likely didn't outdamage your opponent.
 

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Esotera said:
If the submission guy wanted to be on his back, is put there, and doesn't do anything from there, should he get points anyways? Of course he got put where he want, but if he can't successfully submit his opponent, what good was it to be in this position? You most likely didn't outdamage your opponent.
Thats a specific scenario, one in which the fighter on the bottom would lose as he is not accomplishing anything. Dominant position is the top, and it is from there that a fight can be ended more easily. All grapplers tell you to fight from the top if you can, regardless of the art they practice. I am glad to see points for top position simply because it shows control of the fight, very few guys can control where a fight goes from the bottom... control is worth points.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Bob Sacramento said:
Thats a specific scenario, one in which the fighter on the bottom would lose as he is not accomplishing anything. Dominant position is the top, and it is from there that a fight can be ended more easily. All grapplers tell you to fight from the top if you can, regardless of the art they practice. I am glad to see points for top position simply because it shows control of the fight, very few guys can control where a fight goes from the bottom... control is worth points.

Ture. but isn't the whole point of having a fight, is to finish the fight... because there a a lot of wrestlers out there who have top position and dont inflict enough damage to hurt someone, but since they are on top they win.. when a grappler is used to being on his back and defending from there and waiting for the right time to strike.

And yes, there should be more push for fighters who are on the top doing nothing and stalling wanting time to waste so they can win the fight...

but i still think points should be awarded for trying to finish their opponet, and not just because they are on top.
 

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daman5 said:
Ture. but isn't the whole point of having a fight, is to finish the fight... because there a a lot of wrestlers out there who have top position and dont inflict enough damage to hurt someone, but since they are on top they win.. when a grappler is used to being on his back and defending from there and waiting for the right time to strike.

And yes, there should be more push for fighters who are on the top doing nothing and stalling wanting time to waste so they can win the fight...

but i still think points should be awarded for trying to finish their opponet, and not just because they are on top.
Exactly! I'm probably going to get my balls busted for saying this but the Penn vs. St. Pierre fight is a prime example! St. Pierre had more takedowns on Penn but really didn't acomplish anything on the ground! BJ did the more damage and even tried to put St. Pierre in a submission hold but GSP still won that fight! I still think BJ should have won that fight regardless how many times GSP took him down!
 

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Bonnar426 said:
Exactly! I'm probably going to get my balls busted for saying this but the Penn vs. St. Pierre fight is a prime example! St. Pierre had more takedowns on Penn but really didn't acomplish anything on the ground! BJ did the more damage and even tried to put St. Pierre in a submission hold but GSP still won that fight! I still think BJ should have won that fight regardless how many times GSP took him down!

I agree about the GSP thing, he didn't do anything with his takedowns after they were on the ground.
 

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AtomDanger said:
I agree about the GSP thing, he didn't do anything with his takedowns after they were on the ground.
You guys are right, Penn was defending well, but the points go to GSP for actually trying to hurt Penn, while fewer, if any, points were awarded to Penn for trying to defend GSP's attacks while on top. The idea of points going to the guy on top is because 99% of fighters want to be on top, so the one who achieves top position is the one in control, even if he fails to accomplish anything while there. Its the control that the judges see and reward.
 
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