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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Both guys are super-natural athletes, yes... NFL, NBA, and Soccer may have superior athletes.. but in MMA

They both attack like a bat out of hell from the bell, comparison:


Jon "Bones" Jones - 6'4", 84" reach (by the rule of wingspan = height, he should be 76", considering his non HW frame, I would wager he has the longest arms in MMA).

-Strongest clinch demonstrated at LHW.
-Hardest takedown guy at LHW - suplexes, bodyslams..unreal.
-Outstanding balance as demonstrated by his ability to land the spinning strikes.
-Chin somewhat tested by few landed power shots (but he's shrugged them all off).
-Takes advantage of kickers.
-No fear, killer instinct from the bell.

If he develops crisp Lennox Lewis type jabs, and the ability to check kicks/shows that he can throw just orthodox kicks in a multi-round war - he is the one at LHW. I have him as #2 LHW behind Anderson.



Brock Lesnar - 6'3", 83" reach, 300+ lbs

-Greatest 300+ athlete in MMA history- cardio, quickness, flying knees.
-The best TD artist in MMA off the bell.
-Outstading balance.
-If he gets the mount, he holds the position indefinitely with his wrestling acumen and athleticism.
-Ridiculous circuit routine for a guy that size.

Punching is a bit one dimensional, but his straight jab wherever it lands has enough force to knock guys off their feet. Not the precise short puncher as Carwin is, but I think that'll change, if he hasn't been worked on improving his dirty boxing already. Carwin landed about 40 short punches with atleast 30 to to the head in 15 seconds on Super-Mir - I don't know if Brock's there yet with hand speed and precision.
 

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Brock Lesnar, You have never seen a athlete at that size be as good as him. There have been just as big or bigger athletes, but they were all slow and somewhat predictable, Now lesnar is predictable also as in you know he will try a takedown, same with GSP, but they are just so hard to stop.

The only thing that Jones has in terms of "freak of nature" is his reach, all the other stuff are intangibles that dont go into the "freak of nature" category, that is just pure skill.
 

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Brock Lesnar, You have never seen a athlete at that size be as good as him. There have been just as big or bigger athletes, but they were all slow and somewhat predictable, Now lesnar is predictable also as in you know he will try a takedown, same with GSP, but they are just so hard to stop.

The only thing that Jones has in terms of "freak of nature" is his reach, all the other stuff are intangibles that dont go into the "freak of nature" category, that is just pure skill.
I agree with this. Bones has crazy reach but the rest of the stuff is skill not "freak of nature" kind of stuff. His timing and speed is good to but not freakish like Anderson Silva's.
 

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Jon Jones fights flashy, but he's not exactly a freak of nature. His cardio is great and he's coming at you aggressively the whole time. Sooner or later he will face somebody who will have the answer for all the flashy telegraphed backfists and elbows and he will become an even better fighter after that.

Brock first of all is unusually big for any human being. But not only is he big, he has the cardio to back it up. And on top of that, he's incredibly talented. Has anyone ever had a better wrestling record? I think he's 104-5 or something in college wrestling. He's had 5 MMA fights so far and beat 2 at the time top 10 heavyweights and a very solid opponent and back then borderline top 10 heavyweight in Heath Herring. Because of his popularity he's been thrown in the deep end and he didn't drown. That sounds like freak of nature to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Brock Lesnar, You have never seen a athlete at that size be as good as him. There have been just as big or bigger athletes, but they were all slow and somewhat predictable, Now lesnar is predictable also as in you know he will try a takedown, same with GSP, but they are just so hard to stop.

The only thing that Jones has in terms of "freak of nature" is his reach, all the other stuff are intangibles that dont go into the "freak of nature" category, that is just pure skill.
Does "all the other stuff" = unmatched brute strength at LHW? With suplex TDS, pick guys off the ground and hold them walk around then do a proper body slam and power to make hybird Judo throws+wrestling takedowns on guys like Vera/Hamill with ease in the clinch. Rampage showed something close to that kind of power, but Bones is doing it with more authority. If he was allowed to power slam guys on their head like the old days i'm sure we would seen that from him.
 

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Does "all the other stuff" = unmatched brute strength at LHW? With suplex TDS, pick guys off the ground and hold them walk around then do a proper body slam and power to make hybird Judo throws+wrestling takedowns on guys like Vera/Hamill with ease in the clinch. Rampage showed something close to that kind of power, but Bones is doing it with more authority. If he was allowed to power slam guys on their head like the old days i'm sure we would seen that from him.
I am a big Bones fan so I am not trying to take anything away from him, but He hasnt even fought top 10 fighters yet. Lets see how he does against someone with power like Rampage, Or speed like Rashad and maybe the elusiveness of Machida. You are basically crowning him prematurely.

Brock Lesnar has faced the best and will always face the best because he is the champ, Bones still has another 1 year or so before he is considered in the top 5 category.

You talk about unmatched strength... Is vera known or strength or Bonnar? Maybe Hamill? Your points are basically void because like I said above, he hasnt faced the best of the best yet.
 

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I definitely consider Brock to be more of the "freak of nature." I've seen plenty of tall, athletic dudes. I've never seen a guy who's Brock's size while maintaining his speed and athleticism. Brock truly is taken straight out of a horror film.

Jones is absolutely phenomenal and amazing, but to me he's an athletic young guy who's put in a lot of work to hone his natural talent. You don't just run out there and control guys like he does without the years of wrestling he's put in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree with this. Bones has crazy reach but the rest of the stuff is skill not "freak of nature" kind of stuff. His timing and speed is good to but not freakish like Anderson Silva's.
Yeah that's skill, i'm talking athleticism. Lyoto Machida doesn't have KO power, is pretty small, decent strength, certainly above average gifted fighter - he's skilled - not a freak of nature.

Anderson Silva's a gifted athlete, but you think he was born with the ability to do the things he does? You think Jon Jones and can stand there and dodge punches like Anderson Silva - no. That's skill.


I'm talking natural born skill sets. And i'm saying Brock and Bones are the best anomalies of supreme athleticism and power coming in to the sport.
 

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Yeah that's skill, i'm talking athleticism. Lyoto Machida doesn't have KO power, is pretty small, decent strength, certainly above average gifted fighter - he's skilled - not a freak of nature.

Anderson Silva's a gifted athlete, but you think he was born with the ability to do the things he does? You think Jon Jones and can stand there and dodge punches like Anderson Silva - no. That's skill.


I'm talking natural born skill sets. And i'm saying Brock and Bones are the best anomalies of supreme athleticism and power coming in to the sport.
Lyoto doesn't have KO power? Tell that to Rashad and Thiago Silva. He may not be on the top of the KO charts, but he can definitely lay a dude out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Lyoto doesn't have KO power? Tell that to Rashad and Thiago Silva. He may not be on the top of the KO charts, but he can definitely lay a dude out.
Lyoyo has technique, he's a strong guy and precise striker, his KOs have been countering, trapping, rocking a guy and following up with flurries on the button resulting in KOs. That's not an insult - Machida is a skilled fighter.

I'm talking one strike lights out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
I could go down to any street court in most major cities and find 5 or 10 guys with similar measurables to John Jones. You would be lucky to find 5 to 10 people on the entire planet with measurables compareable to Brock.

Question wasn't about measureables, it was about people coming into the MMA and being freaks of nature + having skillsets to do things other guys can't, not about statistical dispersions. Yes average 6'2, 300lbs man has more probability fat slobs. The average long limbed 6'4" 220lbs man has less of a probability of being fat slob. But i did say coming in to the MMA.....If it were about measureables, first off, there's hundreds of guys not in the MMA that are freaks of nature - College and NFL linemen for example. Not talking about statistical dispersions of the entire world's population.

Talking about guys coming in to MMA that can do things other guys can't and dominating.

If you read the OP, it's about guys that come in the MMA and do unreal things from the get go, both Jones and Brock would likely be regular somewhat athletic dudes if they hadn't worked their asses off and became high school state and college wrestling national champs be it Jones was a JUCO champ drop out. This is the point in time where "freak of nature" reference comes in.

Brock was destructive right from the get go, and he got an early shot at the title and is champ, yes, based mostly on his freak of athletic skills combined with a few years of MMA training. He's still no complete fighter, he's still yet to show dirty boxing, which could get him in trouble and lose him his belt if he doesn't/hasn't learned. Still hasn't been tagged by a crisp boxer.

Jones has been destructive from the get go as well based upon his pre-MMA dominance, but he just hasn't had a shot yet to fight the LHW top 5ers to dominate as Brock immediately did - probably because of youth and star power. By the end of 2011, the UFC will have likely have no choice but to give him a title shot, and he's probably going to hold it for a long time. I would put odds in his favor of taking down and imposing will on anyone at LHW, including Lyoto, Rashad and Rua. The only guy I think odds are would beat Jones right now at age 22 is Anderson, if he ever gets that opportunity.
 

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Bones doesn't have any credible wins yet. His stature is not too impressive either. He may be skilled, but theres nothing about him that could be called freak of nature.

Brock however is a huge hulking human being with the agility and movement of someone half his size. Is he the best HW? Not yet. Is he great at MMA? Not yet. But as an athlete, hes the sickest thing the UFC has seen.
 

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I've never seen an athlete control his opponent the way that Brock has. It's like he's holding an insect rather than a 205+ lb. man down. His freakish strength, unusually long reach, huge hands and wrestling knowledge in combination are unparalleled in the sport.

Add to that his frightening speed, leaping ability, and sociopathic inability to empathize with his opponents and you get a frightening combination of attributes which usually spells disaster for his opponents.

He also has one punch KO power, although he doesn't trust his hands, and may never will (lack of practice in actual fights due to his reliance on his overwhelming wrestling).

As far as Bones, he's the future champ. That's it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Bones doesn't have any credible wins yet. His stature is not too impressive either. He may be skilled, but theres nothing about him that could be called freak of nature.

Brock however is a huge hulking human being with the agility and movement of someone half his size. Is he the best HW? Not yet. Is he great at MMA? Not yet. But as an athlete, hes the sickest thing the UFC has seen.
No credible wins - OK, but he rag dolled and pounded the last two fighters he's faced - Vera and Hamill like they've never been before, both decent fighters. I don't think there are too many or any guys sitting at the top of the LHWs group sitting down with Joe Silva saying I want Jon Jones. 84 inch reach, arguably the strongest LHW, 6'4", quick movements - dominating fighter - that's freakish. If you put him on PPV he's be a solid co main-event against anyone, or main event if he had a shot at a top 5. His next fight a tv headliner atleast.

I thought the freakishness was pretty even. I haven't seen anyone do the things Jon Jones is doing to the opponents he's faced - UFC matchmakers know it, people that have watched him fight know this guy has a future of getting a title shot in the next two years, and many (like me) believe he's got tools to beat anyone in LHW right now, he'll keep dominating, getting better, win the LHW belt and stop the merry-go-round of LHWs.

Not saying Brock isn't a freak of nature ... as well, just the heavy Brock bias..

We can just end this thread.

***

This was supposed OBJECTIVE thread (hence my name) a little bit of oranges to tangerines questions between who's more relatively freakish to their division.

I was expecting more like:

Oooooo Brock's so big and athletic, he moves like like he's 100 pounds lighter, he blows guys away and is a 300 pound guy throwing flying knees.

But dude, has anyone ever shown the dominance and brute strength to rag doll Hammill or Vera, using Judo throws in the clinch, proper slams, combined with speed and striking. He's the future and he's only 22, he gets better every fight. When's the last time you saw a LHW GnP a guy with pummeling blows.

Nooo way Brock is sooo quick for size, he's one of a kind, he's going to negate Carwin's punching precision with his range, and superior wrestling and quickness.

Can Bones due that kind of thing to a Machida or Rampage? He's soooo unproven, you can't make judgements regardless of the dominance he's shown, Vera and Hammill are cans - he's skills will only be relevant when he faces a top 5 LHW.

Nooooo homey, I think the real freak is Carwin, his hands are so big and all first round KO/TKOs. He'll push Brock to the cage and hammer away at him with dirty boxing and knees.

You're crazy, Brock will take him down 5 seconds in to the fight, exhaust and GnP him.

Why are we even mentioning Carwin, he's not part of OP.

Bones could develop use his longest arm length range to negate Machida's backing up. And he could take down Rua, if Machida can do it, why wouldn't Bones be able to. And Rashad is athletic but he can't control people's arms and GnP once on the ground.

ahhhhhhhh

Whatever, my feelings are hurt, i'm never starting a thread again.
 

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I dont know why you even continue to post things, you obviously dont take crtisism against your own view of opinions well.

The problem is that you named this thread wrong, If you ask who is the bigger "freak of nature", I dont care what examples you give for Bones Jones, The answer is simple. Brock Lesnar.

A freak of nature isnt consisteded of throwing guys around like you make it out to be, Those are all skill sets and techniques. You keep bring it up and up on how Jones throws guys around and how he has this brute strength. I ask again, Are Hamil and Vera known for their strength? NOPE!

Until he fights a fighter like Rampage, You cant say he has this amazing strength, Until he fights Rashad or Machida, You cant say he has the best speed in the LHW division. I just dont think you really know how the term " freak of nature" is used, it isnt just thrown around for the heck of it.

This has also been said NUMEROUS times in this thread, Bones Jones hasnt faced a top 10 fighter yet, and yet you keep bringing up his techniques and skill sets against average fighters.

*edit* Let me just make a example for you of how you are using the term freak of nature wrong. Lets take GSP for example, even though you cant compare Jones to GSP yet. By your defintion, GSP should be a top listed "freak of nature", He takes down opponents at his will, opponents who are sometimes bigger and stronger then him, he takes them down fairly easily, makes them look childish sometimes. Does that mean he is a freak of nature? NOPE!
 
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