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Bigger Freak of Nature in MMA - Brock or Bones?

3K views 31 replies 21 participants last post by  punchbag 
#1 ·
Both guys are super-natural athletes, yes... NFL, NBA, and Soccer may have superior athletes.. but in MMA

They both attack like a bat out of hell from the bell, comparison:


Jon "Bones" Jones - 6'4", 84" reach (by the rule of wingspan = height, he should be 76", considering his non HW frame, I would wager he has the longest arms in MMA).

-Strongest clinch demonstrated at LHW.
-Hardest takedown guy at LHW - suplexes, bodyslams..unreal.
-Outstanding balance as demonstrated by his ability to land the spinning strikes.
-Chin somewhat tested by few landed power shots (but he's shrugged them all off).
-Takes advantage of kickers.
-No fear, killer instinct from the bell.

If he develops crisp Lennox Lewis type jabs, and the ability to check kicks/shows that he can throw just orthodox kicks in a multi-round war - he is the one at LHW. I have him as #2 LHW behind Anderson.



Brock Lesnar - 6'3", 83" reach, 300+ lbs

-Greatest 300+ athlete in MMA history- cardio, quickness, flying knees.
-The best TD artist in MMA off the bell.
-Outstading balance.
-If he gets the mount, he holds the position indefinitely with his wrestling acumen and athleticism.
-Ridiculous circuit routine for a guy that size.

Punching is a bit one dimensional, but his straight jab wherever it lands has enough force to knock guys off their feet. Not the precise short puncher as Carwin is, but I think that'll change, if he hasn't been worked on improving his dirty boxing already. Carwin landed about 40 short punches with atleast 30 to to the head in 15 seconds on Super-Mir - I don't know if Brock's there yet with hand speed and precision.
 
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#2 ·
Brock Lesnar, You have never seen a athlete at that size be as good as him. There have been just as big or bigger athletes, but they were all slow and somewhat predictable, Now lesnar is predictable also as in you know he will try a takedown, same with GSP, but they are just so hard to stop.

The only thing that Jones has in terms of "freak of nature" is his reach, all the other stuff are intangibles that dont go into the "freak of nature" category, that is just pure skill.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I agree with this. Bones has crazy reach but the rest of the stuff is skill not "freak of nature" kind of stuff. His timing and speed is good to but not freakish like Anderson Silva's.
 
#4 ·
Jon Jones fights flashy, but he's not exactly a freak of nature. His cardio is great and he's coming at you aggressively the whole time. Sooner or later he will face somebody who will have the answer for all the flashy telegraphed backfists and elbows and he will become an even better fighter after that.

Brock first of all is unusually big for any human being. But not only is he big, he has the cardio to back it up. And on top of that, he's incredibly talented. Has anyone ever had a better wrestling record? I think he's 104-5 or something in college wrestling. He's had 5 MMA fights so far and beat 2 at the time top 10 heavyweights and a very solid opponent and back then borderline top 10 heavyweight in Heath Herring. Because of his popularity he's been thrown in the deep end and he didn't drown. That sounds like freak of nature to me.
 
#7 ·
I definitely consider Brock to be more of the "freak of nature." I've seen plenty of tall, athletic dudes. I've never seen a guy who's Brock's size while maintaining his speed and athleticism. Brock truly is taken straight out of a horror film.

Jones is absolutely phenomenal and amazing, but to me he's an athletic young guy who's put in a lot of work to hone his natural talent. You don't just run out there and control guys like he does without the years of wrestling he's put in.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Question wasn't about measureables, it was about people coming into the MMA and being freaks of nature + having skillsets to do things other guys can't, not about statistical dispersions. Yes average 6'2, 300lbs man has more probability fat slobs. The average long limbed 6'4" 220lbs man has less of a probability of being fat slob. But i did say coming in to the MMA.....If it were about measureables, first off, there's hundreds of guys not in the MMA that are freaks of nature - College and NFL linemen for example. Not talking about statistical dispersions of the entire world's population.

Talking about guys coming in to MMA that can do things other guys can't and dominating.

If you read the OP, it's about guys that come in the MMA and do unreal things from the get go, both Jones and Brock would likely be regular somewhat athletic dudes if they hadn't worked their asses off and became high school state and college wrestling national champs be it Jones was a JUCO champ drop out. This is the point in time where "freak of nature" reference comes in.

Brock was destructive right from the get go, and he got an early shot at the title and is champ, yes, based mostly on his freak of athletic skills combined with a few years of MMA training. He's still no complete fighter, he's still yet to show dirty boxing, which could get him in trouble and lose him his belt if he doesn't/hasn't learned. Still hasn't been tagged by a crisp boxer.

Jones has been destructive from the get go as well based upon his pre-MMA dominance, but he just hasn't had a shot yet to fight the LHW top 5ers to dominate as Brock immediately did - probably because of youth and star power. By the end of 2011, the UFC will have likely have no choice but to give him a title shot, and he's probably going to hold it for a long time. I would put odds in his favor of taking down and imposing will on anyone at LHW, including Lyoto, Rashad and Rua. The only guy I think odds are would beat Jones right now at age 22 is Anderson, if he ever gets that opportunity.
 
#17 ·
Bones doesn't have any credible wins yet. His stature is not too impressive either. He may be skilled, but theres nothing about him that could be called freak of nature.

Brock however is a huge hulking human being with the agility and movement of someone half his size. Is he the best HW? Not yet. Is he great at MMA? Not yet. But as an athlete, hes the sickest thing the UFC has seen.
 
#19 · (Edited)
No credible wins - OK, but he rag dolled and pounded the last two fighters he's faced - Vera and Hamill like they've never been before, both decent fighters. I don't think there are too many or any guys sitting at the top of the LHWs group sitting down with Joe Silva saying I want Jon Jones. 84 inch reach, arguably the strongest LHW, 6'4", quick movements - dominating fighter - that's freakish. If you put him on PPV he's be a solid co main-event against anyone, or main event if he had a shot at a top 5. His next fight a tv headliner atleast.

I thought the freakishness was pretty even. I haven't seen anyone do the things Jon Jones is doing to the opponents he's faced - UFC matchmakers know it, people that have watched him fight know this guy has a future of getting a title shot in the next two years, and many (like me) believe he's got tools to beat anyone in LHW right now, he'll keep dominating, getting better, win the LHW belt and stop the merry-go-round of LHWs.

Not saying Brock isn't a freak of nature ... as well, just the heavy Brock bias..

We can just end this thread.

***

This was supposed OBJECTIVE thread (hence my name) a little bit of oranges to tangerines questions between who's more relatively freakish to their division.

I was expecting more like:

Oooooo Brock's so big and athletic, he moves like like he's 100 pounds lighter, he blows guys away and is a 300 pound guy throwing flying knees.

But dude, has anyone ever shown the dominance and brute strength to rag doll Hammill or Vera, using Judo throws in the clinch, proper slams, combined with speed and striking. He's the future and he's only 22, he gets better every fight. When's the last time you saw a LHW GnP a guy with pummeling blows.

Nooo way Brock is sooo quick for size, he's one of a kind, he's going to negate Carwin's punching precision with his range, and superior wrestling and quickness.

Can Bones due that kind of thing to a Machida or Rampage? He's soooo unproven, you can't make judgements regardless of the dominance he's shown, Vera and Hammill are cans - he's skills will only be relevant when he faces a top 5 LHW.

Nooooo homey, I think the real freak is Carwin, his hands are so big and all first round KO/TKOs. He'll push Brock to the cage and hammer away at him with dirty boxing and knees.

You're crazy, Brock will take him down 5 seconds in to the fight, exhaust and GnP him.

Why are we even mentioning Carwin, he's not part of OP.

Bones could develop use his longest arm length range to negate Machida's backing up. And he could take down Rua, if Machida can do it, why wouldn't Bones be able to. And Rashad is athletic but he can't control people's arms and GnP once on the ground.

ahhhhhhhh

Whatever, my feelings are hurt, i'm never starting a thread again.
 
#18 ·
I've never seen an athlete control his opponent the way that Brock has. It's like he's holding an insect rather than a 205+ lb. man down. His freakish strength, unusually long reach, huge hands and wrestling knowledge in combination are unparalleled in the sport.

Add to that his frightening speed, leaping ability, and sociopathic inability to empathize with his opponents and you get a frightening combination of attributes which usually spells disaster for his opponents.

He also has one punch KO power, although he doesn't trust his hands, and may never will (lack of practice in actual fights due to his reliance on his overwhelming wrestling).

As far as Bones, he's the future champ. That's it.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I dont know why you even continue to post things, you obviously dont take crtisism against your own view of opinions well.

The problem is that you named this thread wrong, If you ask who is the bigger "freak of nature", I dont care what examples you give for Bones Jones, The answer is simple. Brock Lesnar.

A freak of nature isnt consisteded of throwing guys around like you make it out to be, Those are all skill sets and techniques. You keep bring it up and up on how Jones throws guys around and how he has this brute strength. I ask again, Are Hamil and Vera known for their strength? NOPE!

Until he fights a fighter like Rampage, You cant say he has this amazing strength, Until he fights Rashad or Machida, You cant say he has the best speed in the LHW division. I just dont think you really know how the term " freak of nature" is used, it isnt just thrown around for the heck of it.

This has also been said NUMEROUS times in this thread, Bones Jones hasnt faced a top 10 fighter yet, and yet you keep bringing up his techniques and skill sets against average fighters.

*edit* Let me just make a example for you of how you are using the term freak of nature wrong. Lets take GSP for example, even though you cant compare Jones to GSP yet. By your defintion, GSP should be a top listed "freak of nature", He takes down opponents at his will, opponents who are sometimes bigger and stronger then him, he takes them down fairly easily, makes them look childish sometimes. Does that mean he is a freak of nature? NOPE!
 
#22 ·
OK let me define it AGAIN - "Freaks of nature" means guys that come into mixed martial arts and with supreme athletic ability and previous non-MMA experience (you can call this part of their skillset if you would like and anhiliate established MMA fighters in destructive fashion. This previous non-MMA experience is included in his collective skillsets. As they continue to learn, train and fight, they likely improve their MMA skillsets as well as their ability to athletic ability in the cage.

Really i thought you just had to lift and you become really strong and then you become a world class MMA fighter:sarcastic12:

Bones is a freakish athlete with a set of freakish physical gifts in regards to power and athletecism, if you can't recognize that then your not very perceptive. He is a LHW prospect that has all the tools to hang with or surpass the everyone in the LHW, that's my opinion of the prospect. He's strong as hell, a talented wrestler, obviously a quick learner and it's all part of his great, improving
'skillset'. Two days before the fight his weight is about 205 lbs, then he adds some weight be hydrating himself and eating. Two days later he's going to be what like 5 to 15 pounds heavier, who knows. The other guy will likely have added cut and added weight as well to what he's comfortable with.

GSP trains like a world class athlete too, he worked his way to where he is - it's part of his skillset. He was great athlete and he's a strong welterweight before and undefeated till Matt Hughes beat him, he worked harder, and became a stronger better athlete. Apparently he's not comfortable cutting and gaining, perhaps he loses energy or maybe its GSP moral code to not cut weight to stay true to the WW limit. GSP does the same thing to his comfort level.

Ok GSP was a semi-freak of nature, he could do back-flips he had great balancem etc. before he fought his way to Matt Hughes, then he became a full-fledged freak of nature during roung 2. Happy? His gameplan now is to stand a bit, to setup for a takedown, hold the position above all else, try to get some punches without giving up any position, he plays it safe, get the round, finish 5 rounds, preserve his title. He's lucky "Silva doesn't deserve GSP."

Done discussing lame semantics of skillset VS freak of nature.
 
#21 ·
Jon Bones Jones hasn't beaten anybody yet ... and some how he has this huge hype about him . Hell some people think he should be next in line for a title lol ridiculous. I mean he's good but freak of nature?Jeeze, once he starts beating some guys maybe but when you associate freak of nature its normally about a guy the size of Brock Lesnar or Thiago Alves(because he's huge for his division) etc
 
#24 ·
Brock Lesnar

Lesnar ran the 40-yard dash in 4.7 seconds, a blistering time for a man his size. He has a 10-foot standing broad jump. A 35-inch vertical leap,
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/1/18/172720/885

Think about it stand in one spot and see how far you can jump forward. Lenar does 10 feet and can jump almost 3 feet high. That is insane for a 290 pound man. Lesnar stood out like a sore thumb as a freak at the NFL combine being compared to phenomenal athletes that are his size. If Bones was put through a Combine style comparison with athletes his size I would be he would be nothing more than run of the mill.
 
#26 ·
I like this, Bones is a future LHW champ, but will outgrow himself to the HW division where he will get lost. Brock is like the Shaq of MMA, a total anomaly because a man that big shouldn't be able to move that fast. And it's yet to be proven but if he has a Mark Hunt chin and Rashad/Fedor recovery, he could truly be a terminator.
 
#30 ·
I would think lesnar is a bit more of a freak if you can even call him one, Bones just has a god skill set and an amazing appetite to learn and excel, but he does kind of remind me of a bigger GSP.

Lesnar rides mostly on his size and strength, which for a 6'4" 290lbs roid freak I would say is on par really with most guys his size. Is he athletic? Yes, but he has been competing his whole life so of course he will be agile, fast, and strong.

10 foot jump is impresive, but if I can jump 10' and I am 5'8". Whats more impresive? I would say the shorter guy who can jump as far.
 
#31 ·
Technically Brock should be completely all over the place, but the man has outstanding athletic capabilities, he moves like a middle weight. Its unreal, I'm not a huge fan of the man, but you can't doubt his skills.
 
#32 ·
To be that big and move so fast is just plain crazy, I think the only guy that compares to him for having a freakish ability is Alistair Overeem, whether it is chemically aided remains to be seen for sure yet, others than that may be A. Silva as he's lightning fast for his weight class/ Bj penn for flexibility, or Carwin for his scary punching power, but for me BROCK is by far the most freakish guy in MMA.
 
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