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Brandon Vera demonstrates the difference between Machida's karate kicks and Shogun's muay thai kicks.


I personally really enjoyed the video.
 

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Surely it would have been better to have Machida perform his kick and Shogun perform his kick.
Seeing as brandon has trained MT predominately for most of his life, and had little karate kick training. Sure a lot of the movements cross over but I still think that Video was blindingly biased.
 
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SikWithIt
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We really didn't get to see Machida's kicks in the rematch :(
 

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LONGHAIRED COUNTRYBOY
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cool video! and so true. It used to frustrate me to no end to watch guy mezger kick guys in the head with no effect.
 

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cool video...
 

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Not one to undermine any martial artist form, but all techniques if used proficiently are effective. I have trained in Tae Kwon Do and my kicks were extremely quick and it took me six months to transition my kicks into Muay Thai "dead leg" style kicks. It was tough at first, but I can see and feel the difference. Karate and Tae Kwon Do are very swift in movement, but the Muay Thai kicks are far deadlier cuz of the hip rotation and weight put in those shins on contact. Basically swinging a baseball bat literally. One of our instructers who's a nut case (6'3" - 6'5") has one of the hardest kicks I've seen. Man you can't take too many of those kicks even when blocking.
 

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Surely it would have been better to have Machida perform his kick and Shogun perform his kick.
Seeing as brandon has trained MT predominately for most of his life, and had little karate kick training. Sure a lot of the movements cross over but I still think that Video was blindingly biased.
I don't think it was "blindingly bias." It gave power to Muay Thai, which makes all sorts of sense from a biomechanical point of view and speed to the karate kick, which also makes sense from a biomechanical point of view.

Muay Thai's deep step prior to throwing the kick is like a pitcher who winds up for the pitch. It loads the hips for a greater whip effect, not to mention a shin strike is like getting hit with a pipe. Karate kicks only have an initial slight pivot of the grounded foot prior to launching the kick and the kick is shot straight from the hips without the excess load.

Also, if I remember correctly, the study gave the Karate a greater percentage in speed superiority, then the Muay Thai kick received in power superiority. I'm not seeing the blinding bias.

It would also make more sense for one person to do both kicks, because if you had Shogun performing an MT kick vs Machida performing a Karate kick, you'd have a ton of mediating variables that would rest outside of martial technique, like their personal leg strength, personal hip rotation power, personal leg weight, personal lean muscle ratio. It would become more of a study on who kicks harder, Shogun the person or Machida the person, as oppose to a contrast in martial technique.
 

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I don't think it was "blindingly bias." It gave power to Muay Thai, which makes all sorts of sense from a biomechanical point of view and speed to the karate kick, which also makes sense from a biomechanical point of view.

Muay Thai's deep step prior to throwing the kick is like a pitcher who winds up for the pitch. It loads the hips for a greater whip effect, not to mention a shin strike is like getting hit with a pipe. Karate kicks only have an initial slight pivot of the grounded foot prior to launching the kick and the kick is shot straight from the hips without the excess load.

Also, if I remember correctly, the study gave the Karate a greater percentage in speed superiority, then the Muay Thai kick received in power superiority. I'm not seeing the blinding bias.

It would also make more sense for one person to do both kicks, because if you had Shogun performing an MT kick vs Machida performing a Karate kick, you'd have a ton of mediating variables that would rest outside of martial technique, like their personal leg strength, personal hip rotation power, personal leg weight, personal lean muscle ratio. It would become more of a study on who kicks harder, Shogun the person or Machida the person, as oppose to a contrast in martial technique.
wow..amazing and in depth post +1!
 

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The Bearded One
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This video aired on espn2 before the fight, it deserved comments on both Evans and Florian.

Can´t really tell is the results are 100%, in the video seems Vera put on more effort and concentration on the MT kick.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
This video aired on espn2 before the fight, it deserved comments on both Evans and Florian.

Can´t really tell is the results are 100%, in the video seems Vera put on more effort and concentration on the MT kick.
Well in all fairness, the MT kick requires more effort. I do see what you mean though. He's primarily a MT guy so the karate kick might not have been used to the same extent the MT kick was.
 

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Great Googly Moogly!
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I don't believe Brandon pulled back on the Karate kick at all. To me he pulled off the technique as it was intended. If you've seen Lyoto throw his kicks you'll notice that he doesn't kick through his target in a way that a Muay Thai fighter would.

A Thai kick is all about destroying the target by using the bone to attack. The follow through in that attack is the most important part. Karate is more about attacking quickly and efficiently. After making contact a Karate fighter will pull their punch/kick back.
 

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I don't think it was "blindingly bias." It gave power to Muay Thai, which makes all sorts of sense from a biomechanical point of view and speed to the karate kick, which also makes sense from a biomechanical point of view.

Muay Thai's deep step prior to throwing the kick is like a pitcher who winds up for the pitch. It loads the hips for a greater whip effect, not to mention a shin strike is like getting hit with a pipe. Karate kicks only have an initial slight pivot of the grounded foot prior to launching the kick and the kick is shot straight from the hips without the excess load.

Also, if I remember correctly, the study gave the Karate a greater percentage in speed superiority, then the Muay Thai kick received in power superiority. I'm not seeing the blinding bias.

It would also make more sense for one person to do both kicks, because if you had Shogun performing an MT kick vs Machida performing a Karate kick, you'd have a ton of mediating variables that would rest outside of martial technique, like their personal leg strength, personal hip rotation power, personal leg weight, personal lean muscle ratio. It would become more of a study on who kicks harder, Shogun the person or Machida the person, as oppose to a contrast in martial technique.
The main issue is that you have a specialist in one particular technique generating the results for both. That person is simply going to be better at executing one over the other, regardless of which technique is objectively more powerful (not going to address how relevant raw power is to overall effectiveness).
 
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The main issue is that you have a specialist in one particular technique generating the results for both. That person is simply going to be better at executing one over the other, regardless of which technique is objectively more powerful (not going to address how relevant raw power is to overall effectiveness).
There is some truth in that, but you can also simply argue Vera is a kicking specialist, as oppose to an MT kicking specialist or Karate kick specialist, considering the difference of the two is a matter of how you operate the pivoting leg. The kicking leg coordination, hip coordination doesn’t change, it’s a matter of how the kick is initiated prior to the launch, as soon as the foot comes off the ground, the mechanics and coordination doesn’t change (apart from where the target connects, shin or foot). It’s not like your asking a boxer to compare punches to kicks and the boxer is going to flail his leg indiscriminately while having perfect technique for a punch.

Either way, the discrepancy between a kicking specialist vs MT/Karate kick specialist, would still be a smaller margin of divergence then the discrepancy between two different people altogether.

However, bottom line, it always comes down to the practitioner and not the style. Outright power can very often best technique when it comes to sheer damage; Accuracy however, is another story.
 
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