[Mckeever]

Now, as powerful and as heavy handed as Shane Carwin is, why am i still not convinced he could beat a top striker, or is a top stiker? watching videos back and gifs of carwins punching and KO's, he seems to really lack technique. I mean the Mir TKO, it almost looked like those were just arm punches he was tagging Mir with. His punches look slow and telegrpahed, he seems to always lead with his chin and drops his left hand, leaving himself open for the counter. This punching power thing, seems to be some thing you either have or dont, genetics. I think that if carwin lacked this power, he would pretty much get tooled all the time in the stand up.

What are your thoughts on carwins stand up game and would he be able to compete with a striker like JDS? The striking in the HW division does seem generally poor tbh.

 

[Icculus]

Carwin's striking is slow and sloppy? nooooooooo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f_DPrSEOEo&feature=related

 

[UFC on VHS]

It doesn't really matter imo. Besides Lesnar im sure he can bully anyone in the UFC into the cage and beat there face in.

He was training with Randy Couture for awhile not sure if he still is.

Is his striking that good? Um I don't know not really Gonzaga was clipping him Mir threw one good combo at him (lol that's right 1) and it doesn't reallt matter. his striking is effective.

 

[Mckeever]

Great contribution to this thread icculus.

 

[VolcomX311]

You might mostly be right about his lack of striking technique, but someone's innate power is a legitimate part of their arsenal, as is speed, agility, timing and strength. Also, gorilla KO power is just the nature of the HW division. Most of the HW's, even the lower tier ones, have enough weight behind their hands for a potential power KO. Therefore, though Carwin may lack impressive striking "technique," being that he's in a division where almost everyone has KO power, he has to posses "something" else to have made it to the top.

Carwin had to be strong enough and bodily aware enough to hold & leverage Mir against the cage. It's not pretty wrestling, but it's a form of it and Carwin is a rather legit wrestler.

Lastly, landing punches from a clinch almost never looks technical. They are almost inherently, power exclusive cave man blows because not a lot of people can KO from that short of a range of motion.

 

[AceofSpades187]

i think his stand up might be more in the CARWIN SMASH!!!!!!!! department and not in the technical way whatever getst he job done is good with me(Y)

 

[Mckeever]

You might mostly be right about his lack of striking technique, but someone's innate power is a legitimate part of their arsenal, as is speed, agility, timing and strength. Also, gorilla KO power is just the nature of the HW division. Most of the HW's, even the lower tier ones, have enough weight behind their hands for a potential power KO. Therefore, though Carwin may lack impressive striking "technique," being that he's in a division where almost everyone has KO power, he has to posses "something" else to have made it to the top.

Carwin had to be strong enough and bodily aware enough to hold & leverage Mir against the cage. It's not pretty wrestling, but it's a form of it and Carwin is a rather legit wrestler.

Lastly, landing punches from a clinch almost never looks technical. They are almost inherently, power exclusive cave man blows because not a lot of people can KO from that short of a range of motion.

Yea, true about most HW's having the ability to KO. But carwins power seems to be freakishly above the rest of the division. i understand that power is a part of the striking arsenal, but like i said is it not entirely genetic? I mean, look at guys like bisping, forrest. They must train their asses off preparing for a fight, but no matter what, will never have that punching power. I just dont really agree when people state carwins stand up game is awesome. I respect and a value a striker with speed, accuracy, technique and movement over a guy who just seems to have been genetically gifted with insane punching power.

 

[Baby Jay D.]

Technically, Carwins stand-up is pretty horrible. But in reality his power is scary and a threat to anyone at HW.

 

[perfection1st]

I think Cain Valasquez and Carwin should fight, then the winner of that should get a chance @ Brock.

 

[MikeHawk]

Yea, true about most HW's having the ability to KO. But carwins power seems to be freakishly above the rest of the division. i understand that power is a part of the striking arsenal, but like i said is it not entirely genetic? I mean, look at guys like bisping, forrest. They must train their asses off preparing for a fight, but no matter what, will never have that punching power. I just dont really agree when people state carwins stand up game is awesome. I respect and a value a striker with speed, accuracy, technique and movement over a guy who just seems to have been genetically gifted with insane punching power.

It's not just genetics. It's about how you throw your punches as well. Carwin is very flat footed and slow when he throws so obviously all of his power is going to be behind his punches.

Guys like Forrest or Bisping never go for the KO punch. They're constantly moving and on their toes trying to look for quick punches so they never get all of their power behind their strikes.

But, it's no doubt that carwin has some freakish KO power. His shoulders are just enormous and his legs are tree trunks. He's basically built for knocking people out.

 

[gwabblesore]

Carwin might be the most powerful striker in the history of the UFC.

Chuck had wack technique and wasn't lightning quick but he dominated courtesy of being able to knock people the **** out.

Carwin's also shown that he can get rocked and still turn the fight around (Gonzaga).

From a technical standpoint his standup isn't all that amazing and he's slow, but Carwin eating ten jabs and landing one windmill = win for Carwin.

With great strength and wrestling he's not nearly as susceptible on his back as other strikers either, so he doesn't have to be so scared of the takedown which ultimately makes his striking that much better.

 

[VolcomX311]

Yea, true about most HW's having the ability to KO. But carwins power seems to be freakishly above the rest of the division. i understand that power is a part of the striking arsenal, but like i said is it not entirely genetic? I mean, look at guys like bisping, forrest. They must train their asses off preparing for a fight, but no matter what, will never have that punching power. I just dont really agree when people state carwins stand up game is awesome. I respect and a value a striker with speed, accuracy, technique and movement over a guy who just seems to have been genetically gifted with insane punching power.

It's heavily genetic, but it can also be trained, too. GSP and Sherk do mostly explosive training and GSP has earned power (though again, he is athletically gifted). Granted GSP is no KO wonder, but his TD, the speed of his shot is generated from his hip extension, aka the core source of power (punching included). Solid TD's and TDD's are generated primarily from hip extension velocity. Punches are generated primarily from the posterior chain and hip rotation, much, much less to do with shoulder muscles (big misconception). All those facets are trainable. I'm not sure where the hell I was going with this. I agree power is inherent, but power can be trained and increased, just like strength, speed & agility. I don't know how Carwin trains, but considering he has a thorough collegiate wrestling background, I'm sure they worked on his power (TD/TDD) like crazy and all the work involving core velocity would most definitely translate into punching power. Like swinging a bat, it's all in the hips.

 

[VolcomX311]

Carwin might be the most powerful striker in the history of the UFC.

I'm not disagreeing, but I'm not fully agreeing either. He knocked out Mir pretty fierce, but Cain knocked out Nog even fiercer and Mir knocked out Kongo even fiercer still. Also, I've yet to see Lesnar land a solid. I certainly think Carwin is in contention, but I'm not 100% sold that he could wear that crown "just yet."

 

[VolcomX311]

and lets not forget Fedor's last KO. Had he missed he would have done a summer-salt.

 

[joey__stalin]

Didn't Carwin get rocked by Gonzaga? Then he shot in for a takedown or something... I'd check myself, but mmalinker clips of that fight aren't working. I think all he has is a punchers chance against Brock. I see a TKO win for Brock...

 

[gwabblesore]

I'm not disagreeing, but I'm not fully agreeing either. He knocked out Mir pretty fierce, but Cain knocked out Nog even fiercer and Mir knocked out Kongo even fiercer still. Also, I've yet to see Lesnar land a solid. I certainly think Carwin is in contention, but I'm not 100% sold that he could wear that crown "just yet."

The Gonzaga KO from like 6 inches out is the main reason I tend to believe Carwin's power is #1 in the UFC.

 

[VolcomX311]

The Gonzaga KO from like 6 inches out is the main reason I tend to believe Carwin's power is #1 in the UFC.

That's a good point, he also knocked Mir out from a clinch-range upper cut (well, at least seriously rocked, not fully KO'd till he dropped). I can see your point.

 

[Life B Ez]

Carwin would probably get picked apart by a guy like Anderson Silva, because he is pretty sloppy, but there are no strikers like that in the HW division, JDS maybe. But Carwin has insane power, so an elite striker still couldn't make a mistake, because it only takes one from Carwin to put a guy to sleep.

 

[Thunder1]

Didn't Carwin get rocked by Gonzaga? Yes to include a broken nose druing that malay.

 

[gwabblesore]

Carwin would probably get picked apart by a guy like Anderson Silva, because he is pretty sloppy, but there are no strikers like that in the HW division, JDS maybe. But Carwin has insane power, so an elite striker still couldn't make a mistake, because it only takes one from Carwin to put a guy to sleep.

The fact that Carwin could grab JDS or Silva and push them against the cage or shoot for takedowns evens the whole thing out imo. Kind of in the same way that GSP has great striking.