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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Dementia Pugilistica, a neuro-degenerative disease caused by concussions due to repeated blows to the head.

Freddie Roach suffers from Dementia Pugilistica along with other more famous boxers such as Emile Griffith, Floyd Patterson, Jimmy Ellis and Sugar Ray Robinson. Slurred speach, memory and coordination problems are some of the symptoms.

Parkinson's syndrome, also caused by harmful blows to the head, is obviously a similar disease although seemingly more rare. The most known person affected is Muhammad Ali.

I know most will say MMA is way safer than boxing. Still, some mixed martial artists are regurlarly in tough fights and are therefore at some risk.

What fighters do you believe could be affected by this at the end of their career?

My guess is Chuck Liddell, Wanderlei Silva and Minotauro Nogueira. Despite never having been KO'ed, Chris Lytle has been in many tough fights and as a consequence also at risk. I should maybe also include Keith Jardine.

EDIT: I know this may be seen as controversial,but please try to keep an open mind and be as objective as possible.
 

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W. Silva and Nog both come to mind imediately as has already been mentioned.

Other fighters like Leben come to mind. Even in his respectable collection of KO's he was usually taking more shots then he was dealing to that massive head. Stephan Bonner is a possibility seeing as how long he boxed before starting MMA. If he continues the streak he's on Diego Sanchez could be a prime candidate.
 

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-Raids Into Transylvania-
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Rampage, Chuck, Randy, Nog, Wand etc. Fact is that there's actually very little research into long term effects of head trauma. I read an article recently discussing the long term effects of concussion on Rugby players who are repeatedly recieving blows to the head. Some experts reckon there could be a multitude of possibly fatal conditions that can arise years after a player retires. I think if guys recieve constant head trauma they should reconsider their future as fighters.
 

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Dementia Pugilistica, or chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CPE) as it is now officially called, is not necessarily a result of concussions. Just wanted to point that out.

Both concussive and subconcussive blows to the head will contribute to CPE, but since Freddie Roach was only actually finished 3 times and only 1 is on his record as a KO, it is fair to conclude that an accumulation of head traumas are the cause, not necessarily concussions. It's an accumulation of damage.

A knockout could actually be less damaging than a 12 round war where a boxer gets hit hundreds of times. Those hundreds of punches could in fact cause more damage than a knockout blow. Obviously a knockout is more damaging compared to one subconcussive shot, maybe even 10, but what about 20, 30 or 40 punches compared to that 1 big shot?

I'd like to know the statistics of how many punches Freddie Roach absorbed in his fights, and compare that to Big Nog, Lytle etc. These are the guys that I'd expect to have problems, but given the shorter duration of most MMA fights these days and the inclusion of kicks and grappling, we might be surprised by the numbers.

Here's a good article on Sherdog, written by Matt Pitt who has degrees in biophysics and medicine:

Fistic Medicine: Dementia Pugilistica & MMA
 

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Guys that are going to be affected are the ones that didn't get KO'd the ones that stood in and kept getting hit. Guys who got KO'd by one big punch a couple of times won't be as likely imo because they don't get to stand back up and get punched again. So Big Nog and Wand top my list.
 

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Leben. His face to fist style cant be good for long term brain health.
On the other hand Leben doesn't exactly have much in his head in the first place so it's not like we're going to notice any brain damage.
"Chris is peeing on the bed again!"
"Don't worry, he's been doing that since The Ultimate Fighter 1"
 

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"Focus"
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On the other hand Leben doesn't exactly have much in his head in the first place so it's not like we're going to notice any brain damage.
"Chris is peeing on the bed again!"
"Don't worry, he's been doing that since The Ultimate Fighter 1"
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, that was good...+rep sir :thumbsup:
 

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...Good thread. I believe it really pertains the fighters who have been in wars with years under their belt. I think in particular some of the KO or be KO'd fighters. I believe it varies. Couture has been around the block and has absorbed some bigtime punishment over the years yet his mind is still very sharp with clear speech. Another that comes to mind is Jardine. He's a high-profile guy that has been brutally knocked out and beat on multiple times, yet his head still seems pretty clear. I agree with other members about Wandy, Chuck & Big Nog. Sloppy speech can be an early sign. I think it's definitely more evident in Boxing than in MMA. No question...

Finally after nearly 4 years, I've hit 1000 posts. I'll take a beer for that 1...lol!
 

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It's definitely the fighters that take accumlate damage over time moreso than those that get KO'ed once in a while. In that case, guys like Spencer Fisher and Sam Stout have taken some serious shots in many fights (especially against one another, lol). Nick Diaz has taken some big shots in fights and already seems to have taken a toll. There's quite a few examples but I'm not gonna list them all.

Also, there's the guys that are known to go 100% in sparring and knocking each other out on a constant basis. A prime example of this is the Chute Box camp.
 

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People need to realize 99% of the so called "knock out" punches in MMA are punches a boxer would answer the 10 count from. Hell some boxers could be dropped more than once in a fight and the winners could even be on the receiving end of being dropped by a punch that in MMA would be fight ending. You also need to realize that you will be hard pressed to find fights with punch counts that even remotely compare to a boxing match. I doubt except for a few extreme examples that we will see to many punch drunk mma fighters with the exception IMO of most likely Ken Shamrock and other former Lions Den Fighters due to Kens insistence in going full bore in training all the time. Hell those guys had to make a rule you could only be put out once a day.

EDIT: To further my point I just want to add that even when Rampage knocked Chuck out for the title he could have easily answered a 10 count.
 
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Most boxers get the majority of their brain damage from sparring not fights. Occasionally you will see just a vicious beating that isn't stopped in a reasonable amount of time but that isn't the standard.
 

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Chuck, Wandy and Nog are the top 3 guys that I will closely keep an eye on over the years.

IMO Chuck has already had some damage done. He voice is all diferent and just acts a little strange at times. Nog and Wandy are both Brazilian so it's a little harder to tell but ya there is something there.
 

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What's most frightening is that many of the most skilled boxers continue to box well after they show obvious symptoms. James Toney, Bernard Hopkins, and Shane Mosley come to mind immediately.

Even contenders and champions only in their twenties show clear signs of slurred speech and just general confusion during interviews.

Boxing should be banned, period. Those huge gloves make it impossible to miss, and allow each fighter to inflict sustained low to moderate damage, typically over the course of an entire fight.

MMA LOOKS terrible as far as external damage is concerned: boxing is far, far worse as far as internal damage is concerned.

Then there's the standing 8, the 3 knockdown rule, and others which endanger boxer's health unnecessarily.

I literally can't watch boxing anymore.

I also believe football is much more damaging than MMA.

There's no doubt MMA is dangerous, but far less so than either boxing or football.
 
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