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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for tips on switching from gi to no gi. It seems to be like a different game and was looking for a little advice.

thanks for your time and help guys =)
 

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Das Übermensch
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Switching from Gi to No Gi is a lot easier than vice verca, you just have to get used to not having your grips all the time. Focus on wrist control, holding the back of the head, overhooks+underhooks, and holding the tricep. Also pay attention to the sweatiness factor and you'll realize how submission defense is a lot easier without a Gi on
 

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Ive yet to see wrist control be effective in an mma perspective against a skilled opponent.Big nog is prob the only one ive seen it work for.Other than that youve got the right idea..controlling the upper body with overhooks and underhooks while theyre in your guard.I dont use the gi much as a handle even when wearing it.
 

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Das Übermensch
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Ive yet to see wrist control be effective in an mma perspective against a skilled opponent.Big nog is prob the only one ive seen it work for.Other than that youve got the right idea..controlling the upper body with overhooks and underhooks while theyre in your guard.I dont use the gi much as a handle even when wearing it.
Well he asked for No gi not MMA and I see lots and lots of people using wrist control in MMA matches
 

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Well he asked for No gi not MMA and I see lots and lots of people using wrist control in MMA matches
Well normally i hear about no gi i dont automatically think just grappling.
And your right he said no gi never said it wasnt for mma though

And i didnt say they didnt use it just said not as effective.
 

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i dunno i like using wrist control when i'm rolling no-gi...just gets a little hard when you're all sweaty....actually i think that's the hardest thing about rolling no-gi for me is the sweat factor...everytime i go for a sub just slips out
 

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the no gi games is more about speed than the gi game so focus on switching positions fast and rolling out of stuff a lot
 

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True Grappler
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Alright, so I just saw this thread. Normally, I would have replied earlier, but I guess I just missed it. Let me explain some of the stuff that's been mentioned on here, and why I disagree with alot of it. (don't take stuff personally, please, I'm tired and I'm being blunt)

Switching from Gi to No Gi is a lot easier than vice verca, you just have to get used to not having your grips all the time. Focus on wrist control, holding the back of the head, overhooks+underhooks, and holding the tricep. Also pay attention to the sweatiness factor and you'll realize how submission defense is a lot easier without a Gi on
This is true. However, it's also important to note what I see as the real reason why the transition from gi to no-gi is easier than the other way around, and it has nothing to do with the grips.

I should first say that I use all of the no-gi control points that you mentioned in gi grappling, and I think that everyone should. Those are really just the principles of grappling, more than anything.

The real thing that you need to be able to do to adapt (though you've probably already figured this out if you've made the jump) is the lapel, because it's the only handle that's actually added (and not just improved) by the gi.

It's important because it provides chokes, submission variations (triangle chokes can be finished without the arm across in gi grappling), a handle for sitting up and an extra hand hold for creating leverage for sweeps.

It's easier to go from gi to no-gi because you just have to stop worrying about the point, you don't have to learn how to deal with it.

This, in my opinion, is more important than the control points wukka mentioned, which (as I said) you should use regardless of the grappling style.

Ive yet to see wrist control be effective in an mma perspective against a skilled opponent.Big nog is prob the only one ive seen it work for.Other than that youve got the right idea..controlling the upper body with overhooks and underhooks while theyre in your guard.I dont use the gi much as a handle even when wearing it.
The wrist control is a temporary control method, and it's been used constantly (and very effectively) as a transitional point within the guard game. Nogueira uses it, Fedor uses it, and so does anyone else who fights off of their back.

The fact is, it's much easier to get to and control the wrist than it is to control the tricept. You use that one point as a way to start working your way up the arm and attacking the hook positions (that control point right above the tricept that everybody likes to use).

i dunno i like using wrist control when i'm rolling no-gi...just gets a little hard when you're all sweaty....actually i think that's the hardest thing about rolling no-gi for me is the sweat factor...everytime i go for a sub just slips out
Then you really just need to practice establishing handholds and using that monkey grip effectively. It's a problem for alot of people, and the only real answer is practice.

the no gi games is more about speed than the gi game so focus on switching positions fast and rolling out of stuff a lot
This really isn't true. The gi game is as much about speed as the no-gi game is. If anything, there's more concern over power in no-gi.

The no-gi game is inherently faster than the gi game, because both fighters are less weighted by the gi's, and more slippery and ellusive. That said, that's not as much of an emphasis in the game, especially for guys who are transitioning, because there's a certain innate speed already built up that gets improved without the gi (which acts as a great training weight).
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks everyone and thank you yet again iron man

Iron man, one question tho what is monkey grip
 

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True Grappler
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Iron man, one question tho what is monkey grip
The monkey grip is basically a one handed version of the Gable grip, which is just saying that it uses no thumb. The thumb really just gets in the way, especially when you're trying to work quickly. The control provided by the thumb is competely unnecessary.

It's just the four fingers and thumb pushed together, grabbing is done with the fingers.
 

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to respond to your comment iron man in terms of the speed of no gi and gi if you watch a black belt match with gi you notice that everything they do is calculated and slower. The gi game is more of short bursts of speed unlike the no gi
 

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True Grappler
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to respond to your comment iron man in terms of the speed of no gi and gi if you watch a black belt match with gi you notice that everything they do is calculated and slower. The gi game is more of short bursts of speed unlike the no gi
That's not true on the higher level. Yes, fighters in gi grappling take a lot more time when they're getting started, because the gis are heavier and because they're more weighted. Yes, fighters in no-gi spend alot more time in the scramble, and so their matches work alot quicker.

The fact is, that first statement that a black belt match in gi grappling is slower is just ridiculous. Are you going to tell me that Xande Ribiero works slowly? No, because that's just not the case. He's much quicker than most of the guys at ADCC, so are Roger and many of the other Gracies (though they compete in no-gi, too).

I mean, the fastest grappler in the world is primarily a no-gi grappler (Marcelo, in case that's not clear), but the average isn't higher from one too the other, at least not from what I've seen and from the guys I've worked with.

There are guys in no-gi who are very quick and very fluid, but the same is true of guys in gi grappling, especially at the highest level.
 

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Lights Out
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How is moving Gi to no gi easier than no gi to gi? Without the grips some guys gaurd just suck. The gaurd game is way easier with the gi on. There are more chokes to do and passing is easier. I have always thought that anything you do in gi would be avalible in gi.
 

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True Grappler
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How is moving Gi to no gi easier than no gi to gi? Without the grips some guys gaurd just suck. The gaurd game is way easier with the gi on. There are more chokes to do and passing is easier. I have always thought that anything you do in gi would be avalible in gi.
Read the first page of the thread, ozz. All of our answers are on there.
 

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incorporating no gi training should not make you feel intimidated or like your 'starting over'

In Guard- instead of grabbing the lapel cup the head and neck (think of a thai clench with one one hand)
For armbars and arm control cup the elbows
For omoplatas (instead of controlling the opponents belt) reach over the body to the other arm

Things like that

These are all small adjustments that will come almost naturally

I train with a black belt now that has great no gi experience, but he attributes all his no gi success to his gi training...

Good Luck! (and keep cycling in gi training to!)
 

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incorporating no gi training should not make you feel intimidated or like your 'starting over'

In Guard- instead of grabbing the lapel cup the head and neck (think of a thai clench with one one hand)
For armbars and arm control cup the elbows
For omoplatas (instead of controlling the opponents belt) reach over the body to the other arm

Things like that

These are all small adjustments that will come almost naturally

I train with a black belt now that has great no gi experience, but he attributes all his no gi success to his gi training...

Good Luck! (and keep cycling in gi training to!)
Last i checked you are pretty much taught not to reach behind your opponents head because your offering him something ilike an armbar or a possible handle for a sweep.
And training with a gi wont make you automatically great with a gi.training no gi will.
 

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Das Übermensch
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Last i checked you are pretty much taught not to reach behind your opponents head because your offering him something ilike an armbar or a possible handle for a sweep.
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She is talking about being on bottom and breaking your opponents posture, what are you talking about?
 
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