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Discussion Starter #1
Joe Rogan claiming "no one said anything about Ronda's coach until the Holly Holm fight," got me thinking about some things.

Like this post I made back in 2015.

Bendo trains at MMA Lab.

MMA Lab is probably the worst big name gym in terms of overall skill. They're a good family environment, they have good team dynamics. But in terms of skill and technique they're lacking.

MMA Lab guys win fights because they train hard and work hard. When it comes to skill and technique they're normally outclassed in that area.

I don't know if this is a negative comment, but if what I'm saying is true, I wish they'd get it fixed. It sucks to see Bendo, John Moraga, Alex Caceres and everyone else who trains out of MMA Lab have to win every fight on their heart and guts to make up for their lack of skillset.
Watching Augusto Mendes' fight with Aljamain Sterling & seeing Ben Henderson (and probably John Crouch) in Mendes corner, made me think about how many times I've seen fighters who train out of MMA Lab be consistently outclassed everywhere & be forced to win their fights on heart and determination.

With new names coming up like Mackenzie Dern claiming they won't make the same mistakes that Ronda made. As if Mackenzie Dern doesn't realize she trains at MMA Lab which has one of the worst, if not the worst win/loss records in the UFC & could be one of the worst big name gyms in MMA.

I'm wondering at what point things have to become obvious enough that they will become officially recognized.

If a team in the NBA/NFL/NHL lost as many games as MMA Lab fighters lose fights in the UFC, this would be something that is discussed & talked about.

Is it an unspoken taboo that bad coaches and bad gyms in MMA should never be a talking point?

What do people think about this?
 

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They are ok, John Crouch does like his fundamentals, and he teaches them well, but don't expect to much flash to come out of the gym bar Benson and Caceres... Both seem like he already had that before going there, but then again if you look at the fighters, not very athletic, very cheese and biscuits type fighters, Brad Scott, Bryan Barbarena, Clark, the great Rob Emerson... but most who go there have shown some good improvements in there career, especially Scott and Barbarena.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I haven't kept track of numbers, in terms of UFC fights, MMA Lab could be as bad as 2-15 over the last 6 months or so.

Their record could be cleveland browns'ish.

JacksonWink also has a losing record that is almost as bad as MMA Labs.

Its not so much the record though. Its more the strange tendency for everyone that trains out of MMA Lab to get outclassed standing, outclassed wrestling and outclassed on the ground.

The only way they ever win their fights is by having better cardio/toughness/heart.

Like Bryan Barbarena being completely outclassed by Sage, & only winning the fight when Sage gased out.

Ben Henderson being outclassed by Rustam Khabilov & only winning the fight when Khabilov got tired.

John Moraga has been dominated in a lot of his wins until he pulled out a sub.

What's irritating is, the same exact thing happens almost everytime someone from MMA Lab fights.

You know they're going to be outclassed everywhere the way Augusto Mendes was outclassed by Aljamain Sterling and you know the only way they're going to win the fight is if their opponent gets tired or makes a big mistake.

I don't know why but it annoys me, its like fingernails on a chalkboard to see everyone that trains out of the same gym making the same mistakes for years & no one seems to realize it.

Especially when some of their big name guys like Alex Caceres have a lot of basic and fundamental flaws in their striking that are kind of amateurish.
 

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The role of the trainer is huge. Wouldn't you agree? But the performance of a fighter does not depend so much on the gym. What is the difference between my gym to his gym? For instance, I have my gym at home, installed outside. I have bought some gym supplies with a discount from homegymsupply.co.uk I was so excited when I had my gym even on the pandemic when other gym were closed.
I see on my brother how much he has grown after doing sport. I think he has abilities and enough motivation to become a fighter. This home gym was a good beginning for his future career.
 

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The Title Guy
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The thing is that Edmond's fighters didn't start losing in a large percentage until Ronda lost. After that it became obvious that he was riding the talents of fighters that he got and that his technique was terrible. For example he encouraged Ronda to box with Holly who was a world champion boxer and then after the first round said she was doing great.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
But the performance of a fighter does not depend so much on the gym.

If Khabib smashes everyone. Claims the belt. Retires undefeated.

Then Khabib's team mate Islam Makhachev smashes everyone. Claims the belt. Retires with 1 loss on his record.

And both guys train out of the same gym.

Could it mean performance does depend on gym and trainer?

I think gym/trainer does matter a lot for reasons that don't need to be mentioned.
 

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The Title Guy
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There are a lot more factors to a fighter being great then being in the same gym and having the same training partners though it certainly can help. Khabib was just an extraordinary fighter in MMA similar to how any other great fighter was an extraordinary fighter. Is it possible that Islam can become a good fighter, certainly but only time will tell.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Having a good coach is the same as being a gracie in the early days of UFC. You have training and knowledge that gives you an advantage.

Some say: "my opponent won't show me anything, I haven't seen before". And that there are "no secret techniques" in the fight game. Those who say things like that fear the unknown.

There are secrets everywhere that give some advantages over others. Always.

Think about how dominant Khabib has been with his wrestling based style. What's the secret behind that? I think I know some of it.

But maybe not all.

edit

I'll also go out on a limb here and predict that Islam Makhachev will hold the belt someday~
 
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