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The Mad Titan
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Josh Thomson Says Brock Lesnar Has a "Puncher's Chance" Against Cain Velasquez

"Cain is wrestling every day with this years NCAA Div 1 national champ from MO. who is about 280lbs and let me tell you that Cain coming off a knee surgery 4wks ago is getting takedowns just fine as well as not losing any. Cain is a better wrestler/striker/MMA fighter than Brock but like you said, Brock is bigger with a huge punch. That is the only chance I give Brock though is a punchers chance cuz I don’t see him holding Cain down "IF" he can get the takedown."

"Bobby Lashley couldn’t and cant take Cain down and he's leaps and bounds a better wrestler than Brock as well as just as big so don’t count Cain out in the wrestling just yet."


http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/7/6/1554598/josh-thomson-says-brock-lesnar-has
 

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I agree. Carwin easily defended the takedowns until he gassed. I don't see one area of this fight that Cain doesn't win, except KO power.

I wouldn't say Cain as better wrestling. I would say he has good enough wrestling to stop the takedowns. He has far more technical kick boxing than Carwin did. He has far better cardio than Carwin did... and Carwin literally had Brock in the fetal position holding on for dear life.

I don't see Cain losing this. I see him doing what Carwin did for 5 rounds and walking away with a decision.
 

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Being able to survive Brock for five minutes and being able to survive Brock for 25 minutes are two very different things. Shane Carwin trained in Greg Jackson's camp with Rashad Evans...the best current MMA wrestler over 200lbs. I wish we could skip ahead 5 months till we get to the real biggest HW fight in UFC history JDS vs Lesnar.
 

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You're not terribly important to me
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JDS vs Lesnar will be sick, love lesnar but i reckon JDS has a real chance.
 

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The Mad Titan
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Being able to survive Brock for five minutes and being able to survive Brock for 25 minutes are two very different things. Shane Carwin trained in Greg Jackson's camp with Rashad Evans...the best current MMA wrestler over 200lbs. I wish we could skip ahead 5 months till we get to the real biggest HW fight in UFC history JDS vs Lesnar.
rashad isn't even in cains league neither is carwin.

it will be cain vs JDS for title
 

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Being able to survive Brock for five minutes and being able to survive Brock for 25 minutes are two very different things. Shane Carwin trained in Greg Jackson's camp with Rashad Evans...the best current MMA wrestler over 200lbs. I wish we could skip ahead 5 months till we get to the real biggest HW fight in UFC history JDS vs Lesnar.
Carwin didn't have proper breathing (probably due to nerves or some sort). Not proper cardio. There is a difference.

I think Cain has a better shot than JDS IMO.
 

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rashad isn't even in cains league neither is carwin.

it will be cain vs JDS for title
:thumbsdown: Cain vs Lesnar shall be a good bout. It seems that since Cain threw around Kongo that he is the better wrestler out of him and Lesnar, according to some MMA fans.

I dont really see Cain having as much of a shot as you think he will, but I guess we will see.
 

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The Mad Titan
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
:thumbsdown: Cain vs Lesnar shall be a good bout. It seems that since Cain threw around Kongo that he is the better wrestler out of him and Lesnar, according to some MMA fans.

I dont really see Cain having as much of a shot as you think he will, but I guess we will see.
well i guess that taking herring, murr and a gassed carwin down means brock is the greatest wrestler in the world to most MMA fans.


cain is 1-1 with cole konrad who is brocks training partner, about as big as brock and a FAR,FAR more accomplished wrestler than brock.
 

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The Fun Police
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Meh, i still think Lesnar has a very good chance of beating Cain....regardless of who they are training with.

Either way, who ever wins will get smashed off Roy Nelson after he beats JDS :D



On a serious note though, JDS will be champ on his first time of asking and will hold the belt for a long time.
 

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You're not terribly important to me
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cain wont win, lesnar will dominate him on the ground, and if he gets decent striking he will ko cain with that big bicep and huge hand
 

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well i guess that taking herring, murr and a gassed carwin down means brock is the greatest wrestler in the world to most MMA fans.


cain is 1-1 with cole konrad who is brocks training partner, about as big as brock and a FAR,FAR more accomplished wrestler than brock.
Or maybe it has more to do with Brocks NCAA wrestling background :confused05:
 

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NO. 1 *BONER*
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Brock's advantage is his size and strength.
Yes...he has a powerful punch, but he can't land it on the feet. His stand-up is sooooo bad. Horrible. On the ground though, it's a different story. He has the ability to bully his opponents and force them into positions that give him the edge, the advantage to either pound them bad (Mir) or submit them!! (Carwin).

On the other hand, Cain's wrestling is at the same level as Brock's imo. It's just a matter on finding his range and space to take Brock down.
But i think Cain can build on Carwin's fight against Brock, use the same game plan, try and tag Brock a few times and then follow him to the ground. And Cain's cardio is superior to Carwin and that could be a problem for Brock.
Either way you look at it...it's very interesting.
 

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With Brock it really comes down to one thing - can you stop the takedown? Fighters without any real background in wrestling, in fact unless you are an exceptional wrestler, do not stand much of a chance against him. JDS will be the easiest defence out of Carwin, Cain or himself. JDS wouldnt have the option to keep it standing, where he would have the significant advantage, he would be on his back probably the first time he shot in.

Carwin posed a problem because of his wrestling ability and comparable size. Brock DID take him down in the first round when they where both fresh, he just couldnt complete the takedown. He shot again when he was completely rocked and Shane held it off. He shot again in the 2nd round and you all know what happened there.

Cain is a very, very good amature wrestler. But size actually does matter, and though i could see Cain maybe stuffing a couple, eventually he would be on his back. And i dont care who you are, Brocks top control is so good that you are not getting back up. And now with submissions in his arsenal he becomes even more dangerous from the top.

Also, people shouldnt really pay attention to who is training with who as a means of debating which fighter is going to be more successful. Fedor trained in a playground with a bunch of nobodies most of the time and he did quite well if i remember rightly.
 

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Cain has better wrestling and cardio than Carwin, but the 1 thing he lacks, which is the thing that put Lesnar in most trouble was the power. Cain's power, especially on the ground isn't that great. Sure, he hits hard, but he's no Shane Carwin and I don't see him putting Brock down on the feet, or knocking him out on the ground. Sure, Cain TKO'd Nogueira, but Nogueira's chin has not been as good as it once was. Frank Mir put Nogueira down too, but it had no impact on the fight with Brock, as he didn't have the power to put Brock to sleep. If Cain is going to beat Lesnar, it will be via decision I think, I just don't see him finishing Brock. If Carwin, with his crazy power couldn't put Brock away, then I don't see how Velasquez can, his power is not remotely comparable to Carwin's.
 

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I honestly think it's funny that as every single fight that comes up we get the same old, Brock doesn't stand a chance. It has been like this with every single fight.

I am not saying that brock will steamroll this fight either, but for the love of god you do have to atleast give Brock some proper credit that he has some decent odds at winning his fight with Cain.

I'm atleast being realistic when I say that Brock showed huge holes in his game, and that he really has to work on certain things if he is to be able to properly defend his title, because there's some huge fighters out there gunning to to take him out, and alot of them have a great chance at doing it. IMO, I still see brock taking home the belt, but after his last fight, I am not as certain anymore as I once was. He himself said he wasn't quite as confedent, which I beleive, but a super aggressive brock, still has to be careful, because his next few opponents won't be as scared of him as they were pre 116.
 

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Cain has better wrestling and cardio than Carwin, but the 1 thing he lacks, which is the thing that put Lesnar in most trouble was the power. Cain's power, especially on the ground isn't that great. Sure, he hits hard, but he's no Shane Carwin and I don't see him putting Brock down on the feet, or knocking him out on the ground. Sure, Cain TKO'd Nogueira, but Nogueira's chin has not been as good as it once was. Frank Mir put Nogueira down too, but it had no impact on the fight with Brock, as he didn't have the power to put Brock to sleep. If Cain is going to beat Lesnar, it will be via decision I think, I just don't see him finishing Brock. If Carwin, with his crazy power couldn't put Brock away, then I don't see how Velasquez can, his power is not remotely comparable to Carwin's.
Great points. You saved me from posting up all that...haha. I bet on Carwin and I was stunned that Brock was able to withstand that much punishment although most of the GNP was blocked by his massive tree trunk arms, but he got rocked on multiple occasions that would have put out anybody else...ie all 12 fighters before him. Cain would have to outstrike him for all five rounds and GNP Brock for all five rounds all the while defending the take down. It's only a matter of time before Brock takes em down. All in all I think it'll be a good match.

Food for thought. He's defending against two undefeated fighters.
 

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Being able to survive Brock for five minutes and being able to survive Brock for 25 minutes are two very different things. Shane Carwin trained in Greg Jackson's camp with Rashad Evans...the best current MMA wrestler over 200lbs. I wish we could skip ahead 5 months till we get to the real biggest HW fight in UFC history JDS vs Lesnar.
Not sure what you trying to say, are your assuming Brock has better Cardio than Cain and Cain wont survive 5 rounds?
 

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As I mentioned in the other thread, Josh Thompson loses all credibility when he says Lashley has better wrestling than Lesnar.
 
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