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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now I'm usually not one to criticism the pros, because I mean, they're the pros. They do this for a living and they have much more experience and knowledge than I do, and they deserve respect proportionate to those facts. But with that respect, there are standards and expectations that ought to be upheld.

First and foremost, I was disappointed by how Shane Carwin gassed himself out in the first round. He was looking great, but he failed to pace himself, and possibly didn't even come in with enough cardio. He very well could have finished Lesnar had he picked his shots and kept them coming, but he allowed Lesnar to come back even though victory was within his grasp. Carwin was barely there in the second, and while I give props to Lesnar for pulling off the unexpected submission (and for a nice halfguard pass), I strongly believe that Carwin lost to his himself more than he lost to his opponent. That is, by not having the cardio to fight 2 rounds -- much less 5.

On the topic of cardio, Akiyama really needs to pick his up as well. I can't believe he was calling out Wanderlei with such a shallow gas tank. Furthermore, what kind of strategy is it to bang with Leben? That's a losing proposition for anyone. As a professional fighter looking to increase his stock in the US, you would think that Sexyama would make sure that he could go HARD for 15 minutes, rather than gassing out in eight.

Feel free to move this to the smacktalk section. I just felt that I needed to get this off of my chest, to say it to people who might understand my frustration. I was very disappointed that these athletes, who get paid tons of money just to do the sport they love, put forth such poor performances in the cardio dept.
 

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I don't know if this is smacktalk. As I said in a previous thread, Shane threw enough bombs to knock out ten guys.

Anyone would be gassed throwing bombs like that the entire round.







That is all.
 

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Carwin needs to train full time. He cant be an engineer and a world class MMA fighter at the same time. Even though he was gassed in the 2nd, rnd he still should have been able to maneuver out of that position, but he looked lost. He panicked and let this fight get away from him.
 

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Carwin needs to train full time. He cant be an engineer and a world class MMA fighter at the same time. Even though he was gassed in the 2nd, rnd he still should have been able to maneuver out of that position, but he looked lost. He panicked and let this fight get away from him.
It has worked well, plus he is 35 he has to do something after MMA.
 

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Carwin needs to train full time. He cant be an engineer and a champion MMA fighter at the same time. Even though he was gassed in the 2nd, rnd he still should have been able to maneuver out of that position, but he looked lost. He panicked and let this fight get away from him.
Fixed that for you
 

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As for Carwin, I saw that Brock was defending himself intelligently and was yelling at my tele for the ref to not stop the fight, Brock winning by sub however was most unexpected, I would have put alot of money on Carwin winning by KO/TKO, but I really think I underestimated Brock. Him gassing I think just fell directly into Brocks gameplan and against his.

Akiyama vs Leben I kinda suspected Akiyama would lose as soon as he started trading with Leben, I new Lebens TDD was good but Akiyama took him down well, the sub however was awesome, text book triangle but great to watch.

Overall great card with a good few shocks, I love watching Leben fight, dude has the heart of a true warrior and Lesnar proved to me he is absolutely legit, was a great night for MMA in my opinion.
 

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I think Carwin just got too emontionally attached to this fight, he saw the light at the end of the tunnel and went crazy. If he picked his shots instead of throing bombs non stop, which Lesnar blocked a majority of, we might have seen a different outcome.

Carwin was also hyperventilating after the fight, another reason why I say he was too emontionally attached to this fight. And to the person who says Carwin should quit his day job, he doesnt get paid enough at the moment to do it, hopefully he gets a pay raise on his next contract that allows him to do this full time and go back to engineering after he retires from MMA.

to put it into perspective. Carwin only made 40k+sponsor money today. Lesnar probably made 400k+200k win+sponsors + PPV money, He will most likely come out with around 4-6 million depending on the PPV sales.

for UFC 100, Lesnar made around 5.5 million, that is because the event sold 1.5 million?(forgot exact number).
 

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The Mad Titan
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akiyama hadn't fought in a year an didn't he drop leban in the third? he was winning as well so i don't think you can criticize him.
 

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My biggest problem with Sexyama was that he got caught 5 or 6 times in different submissions while in Chris Lebans guard, and yet wasn't smart enough to avoid getting submitted by yet another with 20 seconds to go in a fight he was winning. How the hell does that happen?
 

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The Avy Slut
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Agreed man, the thing I'm kinda dissappointed about is that I remember Trevor Wittman or another of Carwin's trainers saying he can go 5 hard rounds like its nothing. Uhh? That was 1 hard round.

But with Akiyama, I agree he should've come in with a greater gas tank, but damn I tip my hat to Leben - what a beast. He has dramatically improved his entire game, VERY impressed with him.
 

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i completely agree, akiyama had/has the skill to beat leben imo but the way he fought he lost it for himself, and carwin def coulda fought a wiser fight

both were very entertaining though so no complaints from me :D
 

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i hate chris leben but i have to admit that was a great fight. if you would have stopped the fight in the middle of the second round i don't think either of the fighter would have known their own names. i have to give it to leben he alway has great fights. and come on akiyama is a jap fighter and no jap fighters have done good in the usa.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
You guys are ridiculous, Carwin didn't make all of these excises why are you? Just except it already
Of course Carwin didn't admit that it was because he's gassed. As a fighter it's FAR more embarassing to say "I gassed in the first round hurr hurr" than to be like "he was tough/skilled/whatever and he kicked my ass." Why? Because the former implies that YOU didn't do enough in training, where as the latter implies that you gave it your all, but the obstacle was too great to surmount.

I greatly disagree with the assertion by fenderman that Carwin was lost on the ground. Or at least, I disagree with it being a technical issue so much as a gas issue. When you're exhausted you make mistakes, such as just sitting there in half guard, not fighting for position. At the beginning of the round, before the fight even hit the mat, Carwin was hanging his hands and moving comparitively sluggishly. The spring in his step was gone; he left that somewhere in round one.

And as for whether or not the fight should have been stopped, I completely agree with the ref's decision. The fact that Brock was able to come back and win is indicative of the fact that it was a good call.

guy incognito, Akiyama didn't drop Leben at all. He took him down numerous times, including several instances where he caught a kick and bowled Leben over with a punch, but it's not like he rocked him or anything. That aside, he was looking noticably more sluggish as the fight went on. By the third, he had nothing left. As much as I was pulling for Sexyama, his performance certainly ISN'T above criticism -- nor is his gas tank. He didn't get caught by a flash sub; he wilted and could no longer defend against Leben's subs.
 

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Now I'm usually not one to criticism the pros, because I mean, they're the pros. They do this for a living and they have much more experience and knowledge than I do, and they deserve respect proportionate to those facts. But with that respect, there are standards and expectations that ought to be upheld.

First and foremost, I was disappointed by how Shane Carwin gassed himself out in the first round. He was looking great, but he failed to pace himself, and possibly didn't even come in with enough cardio. He very well could have finished Lesnar had he picked his shots and kept them coming, but he allowed Lesnar to come back even though victory was within his grasp. Carwin was barely there in the second, and while I give props to Lesnar for pulling off the unexpected submission (and for a nice halfguard pass), I strongly believe that Carwin lost to his himself more than he lost to his opponent. That is, by not having the cardio to fight 2 rounds -- much less 5.

On the topic of cardio, Akiyama really needs to pick his up as well. I can't believe he was calling out Wanderlei with such a shallow gas tank. Furthermore, what kind of strategy is it to bang with Leben? That's a losing proposition for anyone. As a professional fighter looking to increase his stock in the US, you would think that Sexyama would make sure that he could go HARD for 15 minutes, rather than gassing out in eight.

Feel free to move this to the smacktalk section. I just felt that I needed to get this off of my chest, to say it to people who might understand my frustration. I was very disappointed that these athletes, who get paid tons of money just to do the sport they love, put forth such poor performances in the cardio dept.

I 100% approve this post....:thumb02: + rep
 

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Now I'm usually not one to criticism the pros, because I mean, they're the pros. They do this for a living and they have much more experience and knowledge than I do, and they deserve respect proportionate to those facts. But with that respect, there are standards and expectations that ought to be upheld.

First and foremost, I was disappointed by how Shane Carwin gassed himself out in the first round. He was looking great, but he failed to pace himself, and possibly didn't even come in with enough cardio. He very well could have finished Lesnar had he picked his shots and kept them coming, but he allowed Lesnar to come back even though victory was within his grasp. Carwin was barely there in the second, and while I give props to Lesnar for pulling off the unexpected submission (and for a nice halfguard pass), I strongly believe that Carwin lost to his himself more than he lost to his opponent. That is, by not having the cardio to fight 2 rounds -- much less 5.

On the topic of cardio, Akiyama really needs to pick his up as well. I can't believe he was calling out Wanderlei with such a shallow gas tank. Furthermore, what kind of strategy is it to bang with Leben? That's a losing proposition for anyone. As a professional fighter looking to increase his stock in the US, you would think that Sexyama would make sure that he could go HARD for 15 minutes, rather than gassing out in eight.

Feel free to move this to the smacktalk section. I just felt that I needed to get this off of my chest, to say it to people who might understand my frustration. I was very disappointed that these athletes, who get paid tons of money just to do the sport they love, put forth such poor performances in the cardio dept.

shut up - you're a clown. "Lack of professionalism..." are you kidding me.

I 100% approve this post....:thumb02: + rep
you too then.
 

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Quite frankly, I'm not sure how Carwin, as an experienced collegiate wrestler, wasn't at least 95% sure a TD was coming when Brock moved to the T-Rex posture (classic wrestling stance with shoulders tucked in and elbows in front, like a t-rex), but I'm glad he missed that window. When Carwin did sprawl, he looked like an immovable bridge.

I was impressed by Brock's almost text book escape and that surprising ending.

Though my boy, Brock did win, as a hugger, I can admit that Carwin did plenty to defeat himself, but to his credit, he is a super heavy weight and he hasn't ever experienced the need to pace before, so I'm not certain I'd say throwing all the hay-makers you have to offer in a position where you traditionally would do that, being on top of a rocked opponent and in a traditional circumstance where the fight is seconds away from ending, as a lack of athletic professionalism or class. Carwin's never met any opponent who could eat his punches for an entire round and that's not something forseable, given his fight record & history.

War Brock.
 

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Here is my theory on what happened to Shane in this fight. Its obvious he gassed hard after the first round, but i think there are probably 3 contributory factors to why this happened, to varying degrees:

1 - He flat out gassed. He either didnt expect to have to go out of the 1st round or he purely did not train hard enough. Coming from the Greg Jackson camp i find it hard to believe he wasnt trained 100%, but he clearly wasnt ready for more than 2 rounds at most

2 - He became emotionally attached to the fight. All that nervous energy isnt good for you, and it showed in Carwins inability to pick his punches when he had Brock in difficulty. A bit more patience, and precision, and the fight very well could have been over.

3 - He became completely disheartened when he didnt finish Brock in the 1st half of the 1st round. I think this is the main contributory factor. He has never seen someone recover from one of his bombs before, and when Brock did so, and actually ended the round in a good position, it was more than Shane could take. He knew he didnt have the energy to repeat what he had just done, and everything about his body language at the beginning of the 2nd screamed that he was done.


Fighters gas all the time, but at UFC level it is rarely just because their training was insufficient.


War Brock :thumb02:
 
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