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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
lately, i've been obsessing my sself with 10th planet techniques and loving it. However, i've been watching a lot of videos of them in competetion and seeing some of them ending up in DQs instead of wins after they get the tap. So, does anyone which techniques are illegal and why or if they are the same throughout different grappling orgs? thanks!
 

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The Forum Drunk
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I'm no expert but I think generally small joint manipulation is illegal to use in most tourneys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It is. 10thp doesn't use small joint manipulation. Apparently in some contests spine (the twister) and knee locks and illegal.
 

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Well things like the Twister are neck cranks. A lot of tournaments don't allow neck cranks because they are kind of dangerous.

I might be a little rusty on my 10th planet but I don't see a whole lot of small joint stuff goin on.

Can you get a list of what technique was used when the fight ended in a DQ? Might help point out why it was a DQ. You would also have to get the rules for each Tourney, they vary from place to place.

Like the tourney's where I am dont allow: Neck cranks, Heel hooks, twisting leg locks at all, and only black belts are allowed to do: Calf/Bicep cutters, straight ankle locks and kneebars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
you covered it. haha. 10th planet doesn't use small joint manipulation, seeing as how those are always illegal i believe. But the calf cranks and neck cranks are pretty much what caused teh DQs.
 

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Yeah, leg locks are sometimes illegal in grappling tourneys, and almost always at the lower levels of competition, because irreparable injury can occur so quickly.
 

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I have always found it strange that a Twister or as everyone on my wrestling team calls it the guillotine, is illegal. it is a painful neck crank but i have never seen it called potentially dangerous in a match, yet in bjj it is illegal.
 

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A twister is not a guillotine it is a neck crank/spine lock. if it were simply a guillotine choke it would be legal.
 

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A twister is not a guillotine it is a neck crank/spine lock. if it were simply a guillotine choke it would be legal.
elitemmagoer is right, a wrestlers guillotine is another name for a twister..

Its a low percentage move but I manage to pull it off once in awhile.
 

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huh, i only did part of 1 season of HS wrestling and never trained that move. and the twister is a very distinctly different technique from the guillotine we train in bjj.
 

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Hex take a look at "Mastering the Twister" By Bravo. He explains that it is a "wrestler's guillotine" but since BJJ has a move called Guillotine already he called it the Twister.
 

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Hex take a look at "Mastering the Twister" By Bravo. He explains that it is a "wrestler's guillotine" but since BJJ has a move called Guillotine already he called it the Twister.
Never knew that! awesome.
 

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True Grappler
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Most of the legality of the 10th Planet system has already been covered in this thread. Locks that target the spine and most leglocks are prohibited in the majority of grappling tournaments, especially at the lower levels.

In the interest of full disclosure, though, it's worth mentioning why the 10th Planet stuff doesn't see as much play in the top tier grappling game.

One of the major problems with Eddie Bravo's game is that it requires extreme control of the basic position before you can effectively utilize the advanced position the way that he teaches it in 10th Planet.

If you don't have a deep closed guard, with the posture broken down and your opponent's hips underneath your hips, and legs up high, even getting to mission control is really tough. It's a great position when you can get there, and against guys who are going to try and stack, mission control is a great way to make sure that you don't lose the position that you've picked up, but against a grappler who knows how to defend from inside the guard, getting to mission control is going to be a rough time.

The same is true for the lockdown position that Eddie teaches from half-guard. It's a really effective position, but (a) it's pretty tough to use effectively against someone who keeps their base in and (b) it's tough to get on the side so that you can attack effectively from that position.

There are a lot of other reasons why I don't recommend guys start with the 10th Planet system as an introduction to grappling. The top tier of grappling right now is a pretty clear demonstration that going far in grappling depends on a solid grounding in the fundamentals, and at that point it's good to innovate. But you have to get to a place where the fundamentals of the basic positions are solid before it really becomes a good idea.
 

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The top tier of grappling right now is a pretty clear demonstration that going far in grappling depends on a solid grounding in the fundamentals, and at that point it's good to innovate. But you have to get to a place where the fundamentals of the basic positions are solid before it really becomes a good idea.
I wish all newbies had to read this before their first grappling class. The last 5 or six keep asking why their "x-gaurd" or rubber guard isn't working.. LOL
 

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True Grappler
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I wish all newbies had to read this before their first grappling class. The last 5 or six keep asking why their "x-gaurd" or rubber guard isn't working.. LOL
Yeah. I would sit them down and explain, very slowly, that you can't have a good x-guard, or a good rubber guard, until you learn the basics of spider and butterfly guards (in the case of x-guard) and closed guard (in the case of rubber guard) and that if they don't learn those things, they'll never be able to execute even the easiest techniques from those positions.
 

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To be completely honest IMO the 10 planet submission videos on youtube are one of the worst things out there for novice BJJ guys. All these white belts are on there trying to learn how to do these super advanced moves, which like Ironman said require very good deep guards and a very good knowledge of spider and x guards. I would venture to say that probably 80% of people watching these videos probably don't have any kind of real great guard let alone any type of advanced guard, yet are trying very advanced moves.

I personally am not a huge fan of 10th planet for the simple fact that I've rolled with some guys who train under them and to be honest they are so worried about doing flashy stuff that they often get trumped by good old fashion basic jiu-jitsu.

My opinion is if you novice guys want to learn something go and learn how to do sweeps, pass guard, pass half guard, and throw on a couple basic subs. When you get to your purple belt if you still feel like you need some Eddie Bravo moves then work on them after you have a better understanding of positioning and how to reverse people when you get in a bad spot.
 

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True Grappler
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I personally am not a huge fan of 10th planet for the simple fact that I've rolled with some guys who train under them and to be honest they are so worried about doing flashy stuff that they often get trumped by good old fashion basic jiu-jitsu.
This is an enormous problem, and I think that even guys like Eddie are aware of it. There are a lot of techniques in the 10th Planet system that are very, very effective, but they're often not the ones that 10th Planet guys concern themselves with.

For me, and I'm sure that you're probably on a similar page, Shaun, because we usually are on this kind of stuff, there are some 10th Planet techniques that are just plain bad once you get into the upper levels.

I see a lot of whitebelts using the lockdown from the half-guard expecting it to stop a more advanced student, and many of the guys who work in with them (whether its me, or Kevin Dadik, or one of the other good grapplers who occasionally works in with the class) has no problem locking up the cross face and passing.

Even if you're learning to work off of your back, begin and end with the high closed guard, or the traditional half-guard. They're the more aggressive positions. They involve less stalling, they make your game more aggressive and force your opponent to do something.
 
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