[endersshadow]

So, I was wondering... why doesn't the UFC have the fighters fight the same night of the weigh in?

I mean, aren't weight classes supposed to eliminate a huge size difference? However, if you have guys fighting 20lbs over their weight class (Thiago Alves and Anthony Johnson come to mind), doesn't that negate the whole weight class system?

Yes, there's a science to it. Perhaps fighters should be rewarded for perfecting that science.

However, what's the harm in just having fighters fight a couple of hours after the weigh in? It makes a weight class more meaningful.

 

[Spec0688]

because not every fighter can live with the natural weight of their respective class the whole year, some bodies just arent meant to weight 185 or 205, some weight maybe 190 or 195 when they are on a diet and are healthy.

Forcing a fighter to fight the same night of possibly cutting even 3 pounds is bad for the sport, they wouldnt be able to perform at their highest level.

 

[Hammerlock2.0]

I fully agree. Weight classes have lost their purpose when guys can cut close to thirty pounds of water weight and come in at 185 for a fight at 170. The idea is that the fighters fight at the same weight to nullify that variable - but they don't. In a way weight classes are a farce nowadays. There is nothing to say against cutting 5 or maybe even 10 pounds. I only have slight issues when people cut one or even two weight classes.

 

[Freelancer]

because not every fighter can live with the natural weight of their respective class the whole year, some bodies just arent meant to weight 185 or 205, some weight maybe 190 or 195 when they are on a diet and are healthy.

Forcing a fighter to fight the same night of possibly cutting even 3 pounds is bad for the sport, they wouldnt be able to perform at their highest level.

Well, just maybe, they would start concentrating on technique rather than just being bigger than their opponent.:sarcastic06:

 

[ptw]

To be honest, you're right, they should have fighters fight the same night as weigh ins to avoid the cutting BS. If you aren't naturally that weight, then you shouldn't be fighting in it, that's my rationale. However, athletes have always cut weight to have an advantage...It's one of those, "Just the way it is." Kind of thing. You could also argue that it helps to separate the good from the great because a great fighter has to make sacrifices. It's tough to cut that much weight, and it puts a ton of stress on your body, by allowing fighters to cut it weeds out the fighters who aren't willing to do whatever it takes to get an advantage and win.

 

[xeberus]

Too much time is spent in developing skill in techniques and not enough in physical participation.

~bruce lee

 

[imrik32]

To be honest, you're right, they should have fighters fight the same night as weigh ins to avoid the cutting BS. If you aren't naturally that weight, then you shouldn't be fighting in it, that's my rationale. However, athletes have always cut weight to have an advantage...It's one of those, "Just the way it is." Kind of thing. You could also argue that it helps to separate the good from the great because a great fighter has to make sacrifices. It's tough to cut that much weight, and it puts a ton of stress on your body, by allowing fighters to cut it weeds out the fighters who aren't willing to do whatever it takes to get an advantage and win.

Using the argument that it may not be their "natural" weight is horse shit. We have nutritionists for a reason, not to mention a mountain of information to do it yourself available very cheap or for free on the internet. Your body doesn't have a "natural" weight. That term has no scientific backing and is purely anecdotal. If people needed to weigh 205, they would adjust their diets accordingly and stay at 205.(just using 205 as an example)

 

[Spec0688]

Well, just maybe, they would start concentrating on technique rather than just being bigger than their opponent.:sarcastic06:

by not allowing people to cut weight, your basically saying goodbye to the natural athletes. GSP wouldnt be as explosive as he is now if he wasnt allowed to cut weight.

Mir would probably be champion of the HW division because for the longest time he just relied on his skill/technique. You would not have exciting fighters like Carwin/Lesnar.

its just a big no...regardless of how anyone see's the positives. Its a competitive sport for a reason. In a sport, you try to get any advantage over your opponent.

 

[Freelancer]

by not allowing people to cut weight, your basically saying goodbye to the natural athletes. GSP wouldnt be as explosive as he is now if he wasnt allowed to cut weight.

Mir would probably be champion of the HW division because for the longest time he just relied on his skill/technique. You would not have exciting fighters like Carwin/Lesnar.

its just a big no...regardless of how anyone see's the positives. Its a competitive sport for a reason. In a sport, you try to get any advantage over your opponent.

Then I suggest we remove these weight classes, and return to HW and MW as the only choice. They exist for the sake of fairness. If they cannot achieve their goal, remove them. I don't think Lesnar and Carwin are that exciting. Mir is much more exciting to watch, even tho he is not among the most exciting fighters.
I fully agree with the thread starter, weight cutting and re-hydration make weight classes almost obsolete.

 

[Chileandude]

the big problems is that having W-ins one day before the fight it leaves room for replacements in case that someone misses weights.

 

[endersshadow]

I'm glad that some actually share the same thoughts as me. This was bugging me for a while but I wasn't sure if this was a discussed topic before.

by not allowing people to cut weight, your basically saying goodbye to the natural athletes. GSP wouldnt be as explosive as he is now if he wasnt allowed to cut weight.

I disagree. GSP would still be a monster athlete. Just because he's not cutting weight and adding it back on doesn't mean it's going to lessen his ability. In fact, cutting weight can't be healthy to begin with.

I think some will appear to be less of athletes because they playing field will be more leveled. And isn't that us fans prefer to see? A more leveled playing field makes fights more competitive.

the big problems is that having W-ins one day before the fight it leaves room for replacements in case that someone misses weights.

That's a good reason to have weigh ins a day before the fight. However, I think that'd be something that Dana White should really put his foot down on. If fighters miss weight twice, they're out.

I mean, just recently two fighters came in grossly over weight (Anthony Johnson and Rory Markkham) and they still fought.

 

[Spec0688]

Then I suggest we remove these weight classes, and return to HW and MW as the only choice. They exist for the sake of fairness. If they cannot achieve their goal, remove them. I don't think Lesnar and Carwin are that exciting. Mir is much more exciting to watch, even tho he is not among the most exciting fighters.
I fully agree with the thread starter, weight cutting and re-hydration make weight classes almost obsolete.

I can name plenty of fighters who, if they actually worked out to build muscle even for a short period of time, would gain a lot of muscle mass to gain a advantage against those bigger guys.

Look what GSP has done, he isnt exacly a big WW. there are bigger ones out there. Does someone being big guarantee them a win? nope.

The whole HW division can bulk up by lifting weights, Look what a big difference that has done for Mir in the way he looks and how much he weights. Sure it didnt get him the win vs Carwin, but you cant workout your chin.

As much as you guys dont like seeing the bigger guys cut weight, Why arent the smaller guys working to get bigger also? Most of these guys get paid a lot of money, and if they dont want to take the time to get better in every single category, then I dont feel bad for them when they get whooped by a bigger opponent.

Sure there are guys like A.Johnson who cut 20pounds, Is he undefeated in the UFC??? hmm... I didnt think so.

 

[Icculus]

I'd prefer it if they had to weigh-in normally the day before, and then weigh-in again just before the fight. And they should have to be within something like 10 lbs of the limit for the 2nd weighin.

Though Im not against just flatout making the weighins an hour or two before the fight. Yeah someguys would miss weight or have a bad fight because they didnt have time to recover properly after cutting the weight, but it shouldnt be any worse than the situation we have now where guys are fighting around 2 weight classes below their fighting weight.

 

[Freelancer]

I can name plenty of fighters who, if they actually worked out to build muscle even for a short period of time, would gain a lot of muscle mass to gain a advantage against those bigger guys.

Look what GSP has done, he isnt exacly a big WW. there are bigger ones out there. Does someone being big guarantee them a win? nope.

The whole HW division can bulk up by lifting weights, Look what a big difference that has done for Mir in the way he looks and how much he weights. Sure it didnt get him the win vs Carwin, but you cant workout your chin.

As much as you guys dont like seeing the bigger guys cut weight, Why arent the smaller guys working to get bigger also? Most of these guys get paid a lot of money, and if they dont want to take the time to get better in every single category, then I dont feel bad for them when they get whooped by a bigger opponent.

Sure there are guys like A.Johnson who cut 20pounds, Is he undefeated in the UFC??? hmm... I didnt think so.

Why would anybody try to gain more muscle if they are already at upper limit of their weight class? Because the other guys find a loophole to gain an unfair advantage? As I said, it really negates the reason for existence of weight classes.

I disagree about GSP . He is a big WW, those few guys that are bigger than him are those I mentioned who exploit the loophole.

About HW, let them bulk up, all of them if they want to, but keep it in the weight class. Because of the guys like Carwin and Lesnar there are talks about creating 225 division.

Maybe those smaller guys actually believe that there is a reason for the existence of weight classes, and want to follow the rules. Anyway cutting itself is not the problem, but re-hydration IS. If you can cut, OK but don't bring back an absurd amount of weight the following day.

 

[Hawndo]

I read an article with one of the UFC's doctors and he said that rehydration after weight cutting reduces damage done to the brain by repetitive blows to the head or getting flat out KTFO'd (I'm paraphrasing) that's why fights are the next day.

And for the record I don't like people cutting a ton of weight, like dropping a whole division in weight. It's basically admitting you don't think you can handle it against people he same size as you so you need a size advantage. I can understand if your natural weight is in-between LW and WW so you cut to LW for example but natural a natural WW should fight at WW.

 

[Freelancer]

I read an article with one of the UFC's doctors and he said that rehydration after weight cutting reduces damage done to the brain by repetitive blows to the head or getting flat out KTFO'd (I'm paraphrasing) that's why fights are the next day.

And for the record I don't like people cutting a ton of weight, like dropping a whole division in weight. It's basically admitting you don't think you can handle it against people he same size as you so you need a size advantage. I can understand if your natural weight is in-between LW and WW so you cut to LW for example but natural a natural WW should fight at WW.

This.:thumbsup:

 

[sprawlbrawl]

To be honest, you're right, they should have fighters fight the same night as weigh ins to avoid the cutting BS. If you aren't naturally that weight, then you shouldn't be fighting in it, that's my rationale. However, athletes have always cut weight to have an advantage...It's one of those, "Just the way it is." Kind of thing. You could also argue that it helps to separate the good from the great because a great fighter has to make sacrifices. It's tough to cut that much weight, and it puts a ton of stress on your body, by allowing fighters to cut it weeds out the fighters who aren't willing to do whatever it takes to get an advantage and win.

then they would have to make new weight classes what happenends to the guy that weighs 175 he either has to cut to make 170 witch would hard to do and fight the same night or he would have to fight at 185 and be the smallest guy

 

[BobbyCooper]

Weight cutting shouldn't be a science!

 

[swpthleg]

Why would anybody try to gain more muscle if they are already at upper limit of their weight class? Because the other guys find a loophole to gain an unfair advantage? As I said, it really negates the reason for existence of weight classes.

I disagree about GSP . He is a big WW, those few guys that are bigger than him are those I mentioned who exploit the loophole.

About HW, let them bulk up, all of them if they want to, but keep it in the weight class. Because of the guys like Carwin and Lesnar there are talks about creating 225 division.

Maybe those smaller guys actually believe that there is a reason for the existence of weight classes, and want to follow the rules. Anyway cutting itself is not the problem, but re-hydration IS. If you can cut, OK but don't bring back an absurd amount of weight the following day.

Additionally, I believe that GSP has a small cut; I think I've heard him say he doesn't like to cut weight and therefore makes it so he doesn't have to cut a lot.

 

[oldfan]

I've always been for same day weigh ins and I've always been told I was stupid. I guess I am because I still don't get it. I've read this thread very carefully looking for pro- cutting arguments that made sense. I haven't seen one yet. Some are borderline ridiculous. GSP wouldn't be explosive if he couldn't cut weight? you should say that out loud before you post it.
It allows for last minute replacements if someone doesn't make weight? Please name one time that a replacement has been brought in after the weigh ins.

I've said before if not for weight cutting we wouldn't remember who tito ortiz is. He would have been a mediocre hw that came and went 12 years ago if he'd had the balls to compete at all.

Weight cutting is a competitive trick developed by highschool wrestling coaches who don't care about their kids health.