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I'm not trying to fighter bash, but this is exactly why I don't like to watch Evans fight. He makes some good points about wrestling being part of the sport and all, but so is the spirit to finish fights. To me, that's why I watch MMA. I want to see heart and guys really try to finish fights. To me, guys like Evans and GSP are content to implement their control and not take any chances to finish guys. That does show a lot of skill, but doesn't show a lot of heart imo and makes the fights uninteresting to watch.

Am I off base here?

Source: Rashad Evans addresses "Rampage" Jackson and fans who call him boring
 

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KO artist
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There's a big difference between Rashad, who just lays on top and sleeps for 15 mins, and GSP who badly smashes the faces / nearly tears limbs off every guy he takes down. People really need to take a look at Fitch's post fight face again, the crying face Hughes made when GSP twisted his arm off, Hardy's teeth grinding when GSP had his arm, or BJ and Serra's beaten, smashed faces when the ref/corner saved them.

Other than that yeah I agree ... it's supposed to be a fight and that means doing damage and finishing the other guy, that's what separates it from completely sport endeavors like pure wrestling or pointfighting.
 

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Good.

I give props to these fighters like Fitch, Shields, Evans, GSP, and so on for fighting to their strengths and playing it safe.
 

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The thing about MMA is its ever evolving. If a LNP tactic does become one of the most common tactics employed then new techniques will be developed to counter this, whether it be advanced BJJ or w/e.
 

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LONGHAIRED COUNTRYBOY
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Thread starter,

first, thanks for the link to an interesting read. Second, yes you are entirely off base.

Rashad said it best in the article you linked. I swear every time the man speaks I like him more.

"What is an exciting fight mean? We just stand toe-to-toe and act like we don't have any training at all? I'm not going to do that. I would never do that. That's just stupid. I know that it doesn't take much to get caught with a big shot. I'm trying to win. I'm not gonna sit there and go toe-to-toe. If that's the only chance a guy has of beating me, I'm not going to give him that chance. My goal is to try to eliminate as much as I can that he can to do me, while maximizing whatever I can do to him.

"I want to say, if you guys are fans be fans of the sport. Don't be fans of just certain aspects of the sport. It's not boxing. It's MMA. That means you can use wrestling, jiu-jitsu, muay-thai, karate, boxing, whatever you feel that's your discipline. That's the sport that you're claiming that you're fans of. Be a fan of the sport.
"

That second paragraph is sig worthy.
I don't understand the constant complaints of boredom. Is your attention span so short that two athletes like Rashad and Rampage cant hold your focus for 15 minutes?
If that is the case, there is k-1, tough-man, backyard brawls, wwe, the list goes on. why claim to be a fan of mma and then constantly complain that it's boring. I can guarantee that Rampage was not bored for one second in that fight.

Were the '72 Dolphins boring because they gave it to csonka up the middle?
Were the '85 Bears boring because they wouldn't let their opponents score?
If you thought so, then football is not the sport for you. Watch something else.

the same applies here. find something that excites you and watch that.
 

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No Rashad.. an exciting fight is when you choose not to stall as a means to gain points in a system biased to wrestling on a regular basis.

A boring fight is when you are grinding him down looking for a way to win. Hell, people dislike Fitch for being boring and he does 100X what you do in a fight REGULARLY.

Starting to hate this punk more and more. The worst part was where he started going on about how he was surprised rampage didnt "quit". If you think holding onto rampage for dear life against a cage and taking him down once in a while is going to make rampage quit you've got another thing ******* coming.

What saddens me is to see uneducated, foolish mma fanboys defend rashad and compare him to the likes of gsp, c'mon wake up.
 

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Well the goal is to win, right? So I don't see a reason for taking unnecessary risks just to excite a specific group of fans who are looking for a non-technical slugfest.

Although I agree fighters should be looking for the finish, I'm also a firm believer in sticking to a conservative gameplan in order to win, as opposed to throwing it out the window to silence a couple of boos.
 

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Thread starter,

first, thanks for the link to an interesting read. Second, yes you are entirely off base.

Rashad said it best in the article you linked. I swear every time the man speaks I like him more.

"

That second paragraph is sig worthy.
I don't understand the constant complaints of boredom. Is your attention span so short that two athletes like Rashad and Rampage cant hold your focus for 15 minutes?
If that is the case, there is k-1, tough-man, backyard brawls, wwe, the list goes on. why claim to be a fan of mma and then constantly complain that it's boring. I can guarantee that Rampage was not bored for one second in that fight.

Were the '72 Dolphins boring because they gave it to csonka up the middle?
Were the '85 Bears boring because they wouldn't let their opponents score?
If you thought so, then football is not the sport for you. Watch something else.

the same applies here. find something that excites you and watch that.
There is nothing more to say. Thanks
 

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Can i ask who ever left me anonymous neg rep saying;

You only like to see a slugfest because that's what English fighters do.

To own up and stop being a ******* coward. This anon neg rep is so annoying, the website should show everyone who leaves you rep.
 

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LONGHAIRED COUNTRYBOY
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There is nothing more to say. Thanks
If only that were true.... I might get some work done.:)

Can i ask who ever left me anonymous neg rep saying;

You only like to see a slugfest because that's what English fighters do.

To own up and stop being a ******* coward. This anon neg rep is so annoying, the website should show everyone who leaves you rep.
There's something we agree on!
I think it's intentional to goad us in to upgrading to a paid membership then you can see who's doing it.

It's an evil plan that is working on me:(
 

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This point is actually quite a difficult issue. On the one hand you have Rashad, who knows he doesnt have great boxing nor a particularly solid chin, refusing to stand and bang with someone who he knows has a good chance of beating him. He has great wrestling - so he uses it. It is obviously effective, he is winning fights.

People can argue all day about it being boring (i agree, there is a difference between what Rashad did with Rampage and what say, GSP does) because there is little to no damage, only control. But its within the rules and its winning fights.

And to be honest, i cant actually say that i expect Rashad to stand and fight well outside his comfort zone, risking his career and health, just to silence the boo-boys.
 
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Can i ask who ever left me anonymous neg rep saying;

You only like to see a slugfest because that's what English fighters do.

To own up and stop being a ******* coward. This anon neg rep is so annoying, the website should show everyone who leaves you rep.
Pay the 10 dollars ya wedge ass. You like the site and its not much money. I can't believe guys on here with 2,000 posts and aren't upgraded members. Sites such as these need money to stay going so open up your wallet and see who's repping you:thumb02:
 

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This point is actually quite a difficult issue. On the one hand you have Rashad, who knows he doesnt have great boxing nor a particularly solid chin, refusing to stand and bang with someone who he knows has a good chance of beating him. He has great wrestling - so he uses it. It is obviously effective, he is winning fights.
Now that's where I come in bashing the scoring system. :thumb02:

In my view the fighter who does more damage wins the fight. Octagon control should be worth nothing, I repeat NOTHING. The actual issue I have with wrestlers controlling the fight I don't have with the wrestlers but with the judging system and the referees. Controlling the fight is just that: controlling the fight. Winning the fight is due to SCORING, just like any other sport. Half an hour ago Germany lost to Serbia. We (which is Germany) controlled the major part of the match, but we didn't score. Serbia did and so they won. I know it's not a combat sport, you get the point though. Controlling the fight should not be the same as scoring a point. Lay and pray is a form of exploiting the flawed system. It's basically like bug-using in a video game.
 

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You're not off base on the opinion part, you can like whatever style you want. Some like boxing, some like muy thai, some like wrestling, I don't care about that.

You're off base on the heart aspect. It has nothing to do with heart, it's about using the appropriate skills at the appropriate time against the right guy.

Let me put it as simply as I can. The guys who don't fight like GSP and Fitch don't....because they can't. Period. They aren't good enough. They aren't good enough wrestlers, they aren't good enough at judo, they aren't good enough at jitz. They aren't strong enough. They aren't fast enough.

If they could fight like GSP, they would, because he is the WW champ and one of the best in the world. They can talk all they like about how they like to bang, but don't pretend it is some kind of aesthetic decision to fight stand up and lose, they don't have a choice.

The equivalent would be yanking a pitcher out of a game that he is throwing a no hitter in, because it's 'boring' and the only 'real' way to win is to hit a bunch of home runs. That would be idiotic, and it's just as idiotic to suggest someone who is a dominant ground fighter should fight stand up.
 

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Rashad fights smart fights, and no one can blame him for that. I am a Rashad fan and have been since TUF2. However, I do wish he would work for the finish more often. Just because you're fighting smart doesn't mean you can't be looking for the finish. There aren't a lot of ways to finish a guy holding him to the fence and punching his knee. I think part of the frustration is that there isn't a sense of urgency from Rashad to put his opponents away.

With GSP, you get the sense that he wants to put them away. He goes for subs, he GnP's - he does all of that but does it wisely, without giving up position. As long as the fighter is actively seeking to finish the fight, I'm down. I just dislike when the feeling I get is that the fighter would rather ride the fight out to a decision to get the W, much like KOS vs Daley.
 

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Now that's where I come in bashing the scoring system. :thumb02:

In my view the fighter who does more damage wins the fight. Octagon control should be worth nothing, I repeat NOTHING. The actual issue I have with wrestlers controlling the fight I don't have with the wrestlers but with the judging system and the referees. Controlling the fight is just that: controlling the fight. Winning the fight is due to SCORING, just like any other sport. Half an hour ago Germany lost to Serbia. We (which is Germany) controlled the major part of the match, but we didn't score. Serbia did and so they won. I know it's not a combat sport, you get the point though. Controlling the fight should not be the same as scoring a point. Lay and pray is a form of exploiting the flawed system. It's basically like bug-using in a video game.
I can see where your coming from, people MUST distinguish the utilisation of wrestling in terms of a tool to finish a fight (GSP, Brock) and a tool to in effect prevent the fight from taking place (Rashad).

I dont disagree with your points. But the fact is, unless a fundamental overhaul takes place in the judging of MMA bouts, this will continue and i cant honestly expect people like Rashad to change, because if that was my best way of winning a fight i would do it to.

On a side note, watched the Germany game and as a proud Englishman, i cant say i was altogher distraught with the result :thumb02: We'll probably get you in the next round now!
 
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It's up to their opponent to defend! Rashad is ON base in my opinion.



GSP hurts people badly when he is on top, Rashad has been more boring, but he's going for the same thing and just isn't as good with control as GSP.


We might see a prime example of someone overcoming this gameplan with GSP vs Kos, maybe Kos can actually stuff the takedowns this time around? I doubt it, but that's what he will need to do to win.
 
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