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I've said repeatidly on this site that Tito Ortiz is te UFC's Muhammud Ali, it should also be said that I find Shamrock to be the UFC's Mike Tyson. His mediocre record is slipping down a landslide into oblivion. Retire already.
 

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Lol another thread with Tyson's name...

But i dont think Tito is like Ali.They had different style's of talking Ali was also famous for the way he would fbox.I dont think the MMA world has seen an Ali yet in the future im sure we will.

Shamrock wasn't a killing machine in this sport like Mike was in his.
But he has become some what of a joke that's the only place where they realy relate.
 

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putmeonhold said:
I've said repeatidly on this site that Tito Ortiz is te UFC's Muhammud Ali, it should also be said that I find Shamrock to be the UFC's Mike Tyson. His mediocre record is slipping down a landslide into oblivion. Retire already.
Tito is a pale imitation of Ali. Ali foguht with clerver words and incredible skill that was above nearly everyone of his time. Tito just throws base insults and is not that clever, Though I do admit he is a good fighter he is not the Ali level of MMA.. I do not think MMA has yet to see a fighter that compares on the same level though though there are several who are close, they just seem to lack the flair Ali had. though they are all excellent fighters
 

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Well what it boils down to is that Ken sucks....never was any good just one of the first people to learn boxing, wrestling, and submissions
 

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down4thecount said:
Finally...someone that speaks the truth!!!!

doublelegtakedown = :thumbsup:
well I do not think it is the truth.. its not that he sucks at the time he was very good.. he just refused to push himself further and others used his example but instead of stopping like ken did they furthered thier training.. and went beyond. ken is in the hall of fame mainly because his is one of the pioneers of the sport and for that he deserves to be. even tank qualifies for that reason regardless of thier record.. if not for guys like Ken and Tank and Royce, while by todays standards they are average or worse... ( mainly now due to age and complacency) the sport would have died back then they put up with events getting canceld or venues being changed last minute and still foguth hard and well. it is because of these guys and others like them that the sport is able to be what it is today at the level it is at.. give 10 years when tito is getting his ass handed to him by fighters who took all tito knew and added to it and make him look like a washed up has been.. it will happen question is when.. espicaly with new art forms being added to people skill sets and all eventually someone is going to find a nearly unbeatable combination and seem unstopable. the sport is still growing and will continue to do so for year to come..
 

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down4thecount said:
Actually...my facts are VERY straight.
If you would have read my post...I said his MMA record.
15 or 16 of his 26 wins that you mention are in his Pancrase matches.
Pancrase and MMA are two ENTIRELY different sports!!!

His wins in mma are more like 9 or 10.
you're right, i misred, so for that i apologize, i tip my cap to you for that
 

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down4thecount said:
Actually...my facts are VERY straight.
If you would have read my post...I said his MMA record.
15 or 16 of his 26 wins that you mention are in his Pancrase matches.
Pancrase and MMA are two ENTIRELY different sports!!!

His wins in mma are more like 9 or 10.
what is the difference between Pancrase.. I have heard talk of it but never seen a match when compared to MMA???
 

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down4thecount said:
I understand what you're saying, and I respect that.
My problem is that Ken has this mystique of being some super dominant fighter...he wasn't!
Yes...he's a true pioneer of the sport.
But so were many others that I feel were more deserving of Kens status. (From the same era)
Look at Oleg Taktarov...UFC 6 champion & Ultimate '95 runner up
Even Tank Abbott was a runner up in UFC 6 & Ultimate '96.
Ken has this legend status but hasn't ever even been a UFC runner up.
All I'm saying is that there are others more deserving.
If you're gonna have the nickname of 'The Worlds Most Dangerous Man" then at least make it to the finals.
Hell...even Paul Varleans was able to make it to the finals once.
(That's one more time then Ken has)
I can agree with that.. And I liked Oleg.. yea those guys all deserve to be in there, but it was the more flamboyant and well know fighters that got UFC and such through its infancy stages.. so those guys are deserving regardless of record.. the others deserve for thier work in the ring, just as much if not more so..
 

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down4thecount said:
Pancrase is more like submission wrestling that allows open hand slaps to the face.
If the fighter is in trouble they can grab the ropes and have the match restarted as to avoid tapping out.

It's sorta like mma with a thousand rules!
hmm can i get more information this sounds like something I would be pretty interested in..
 

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down4thecount said:
Tyson had a great career that started to go down hill.

What I can't figure out is this "legend" status that follows Ken Shamrock.
Seriously people...What has he done in mma?

Lets take a quick look.....
UFC 1 he beats Patrick Smith and loses to Royce
UFC 3 he beats Leninger and then can't continue
UFC 5 he fights Royce to a draw (Someone half his size)
UFC 6 he beats Severn for the Superfight (That was not bad)
UFC 7 he fights Oleg to a draw
UFC 8 he beats a one dimensional Kimo. (Who he later beats again)
UFC 9 he dances with Severn and loses his Superfight title
Ultimate '96 he beats Johnston and can't continue.....again!
Later he gases and loses to Fujita
He gets pounded by Don Frye
He gets dismantled by Ortiz
He gets KO'd by Franklin
He gets KO'd by Sakuraba
He gets beat by Ortiz....Again!

The guy has NEVER won a tournament in the UFC.

Where does his legend come in at??
People shiver in fear when they hear "The worlds most dangerous man"
That was a title that HE GAVE HIMSELF!!!

Ask Sakuraba if he's the Worlds most dangerous man.

Ken Shamrock = Mike Tyson....NO!!!
Try Ken Shamrock = Harold Howard or maybe Joe Son
But that's about it.

To be honest...I'm NOT a Shamrock hater!!!
I was actually hoping that he would beat Tito.
But the fact is he has a losing mma record!
Where's the legend in that???

With that kind of record....I guess they should make Tiki a legend as well!
I agree 1000% He really and truly hasnt done much, he never was that good.
As we all know this whole thing is about money, Ken Shamrock is very well known, he is easy to market so that is why they call him a "legend" but I am with you man, I disagree.
 

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i cant say i agree it really gets under my skin when you people make out he is a rubbish fighter just cos he has lost a few fights doesnt meen he is washed up or a medoka fighter just recap his last fights and how he lost and to be fair he has not lost to eny rubbish fighters has he all of them have been world class. shamrock has been really unlucky in his last few fights LETS RECAP

he came back after a long absence to fight tito who at the time was the best 205 in the ufc not only did shamrock have ring rust agenst him but he olso has a torn acl he had lost that fight before it started he should have bottled up his pride and prosponed maybe have had a warm up fight so that loss was his fault

then he fights franklin and SLIPS TWICE allowing franklin to take advantage i am not to sure weather or not franklin would have beat him had he not slipped shamrock seemed to be the agresser but we will never know.thwn franklin went on to become to best middleweight in the ufc

then he lost to tito agein and to be blunt HE WAS SQREWD usually when a fighter is in trouble the ref will say get out of tere or ill stop it givin the fighter a chance HERB DEAD DIDNT DO THIS HE NEVER GAVE SHAMMY A CHANCE TO RECOVER.

it does my head in when shamrock losses and he is called crap but when royce loses he is still the greatest shamrock has plenty of fight left in him and is not as bad of a fighter as it may seem dont forget randy lost his fair share of fights in the heavyweight div then went on to beat chuck

GIVE SHAMROCK SOME RESPECT AND DONT COUNT HIM OUT JUST YET HE MAY BE DOWN BUT HE ISNT OUT
 

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The reason Shamrock is a "legend" is because he is still around and has stuck it out since the beginning. The way I see it, if Shamrock never fought in the UFC or in MMA, it wouldn't be were it is today. Althought he didn't do so well in the first UFC, he did bring in some credibility to the UFC at that time.
 

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Shamrock is undeserving of his "legandary" staus, he hasn't done anything against anyone to prove he's a legand, and people who wanna give him credit for being an evolving fighter back then, well what the hell is he doing now, he's to stubborn to realize he needs to train differently to surrvive in the ufc nowadays, so his evolving status is also weak, money is what dude is after he was horrible on TUF, i think his fighters actually were worse off having him "coach" them if you want to call it that, he needs to retire because he's not helping the sport, the lion's den is weak, his style is weak, his rep is weak, and just cause he has been around since day one doesn't make him a legand, big john mcarthy is a bigger legit legand than ken, i agree with tito he's the world most dangerous girl
 

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Shamrock's a good fighter don't get me wrong, and there is a small comparison in his up and down fight record. But i'd have to disagree with his fighting itself. Of course boxing and MMA are WAY different but there is still things that resemble themselves. Yes Tyson went out and threw everything he got untill he became old and washed up, you'll see he gives up and makes excuses. Shamrock makes excuses about the same, but does not give up. The first tito fight he got his butt kicked and was still wanting more. Shamrock's got more heart then 10 tysons.
 

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iceman574 said:
i cant say i agree it really gets under my skin when you people make out he is a rubbish fighter just cos he has lost a few fights doesnt meen he is washed up or a medoka fighter just recap his last fights and how he lost and to be fair he has not lost to eny rubbish fighters has he all of them have been world class. shamrock has been really unlucky in his last few fights LETS RECAP

he came back after a long absence to fight tito who at the time was the best 205 in the ufc not only did shamrock have ring rust agenst him but he olso has a torn acl he had lost that fight before it started he should have bottled up his pride and prosponed maybe have had a warm up fight so that loss was his fault

then he fights franklin and SLIPS TWICE allowing franklin to take advantage i am not to sure weather or not franklin would have beat him had he not slipped shamrock seemed to be the agresser but we will never know.thwn franklin went on to become to best middleweight in the ufc

then he lost to tito agein and to be blunt HE WAS SQREWD usually when a fighter is in trouble the ref will say get out of tere or ill stop it givin the fighter a chance HERB DEAD DIDNT DO THIS HE NEVER GAVE SHAMMY A CHANCE TO RECOVER.

it does my head in when shamrock losses and he is called crap but when royce loses he is still the greatest shamrock has plenty of fight left in him and is not as bad of a fighter as it may seem dont forget randy lost his fair share of fights in the heavyweight div then went on to beat chuck

GIVE SHAMROCK SOME RESPECT AND DONT COUNT HIM OUT JUST YET HE MAY BE DOWN BUT HE ISNT OUT
lol here you go again with another Ken Shamrock Essay. Franklin clearly beat him no excuse .The second fight with Tito...plz he did an easy double leg slam in the begining of the fight and hit straight elbows in his face it was a bad call only because i wanted to see Ken out cold for sure so he knew that he lost. he was waxed Bitc* slapped pimp smacked SPANKED beatdown stepped owned tooled humbled,Tito knocked his hair Piss blonde.It's over and im glad Tito can move on to newer and better things.

I still respect ken and i still think hes kind of funny but he is becoming a joke and needs to get out.
 

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I really dont think anyone is close to that domination... :thumbsdown:
 
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