Mixed Martial Arts Forum banner
1 - 20 of 103 Posts

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm not usually a big fan of Sherdog's writers, but I do think they make some valid points.

http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/The-Fedor-Backlash-Continues-25228


When the time comes that your difficulties outside of the ring overshadow what you’ve done inside of it, some course correction is probably in order. But it might be too late for Fedor Emelianenko.

When Emelianenko became a free agent in 2009, the best money and quality of opposition was in the UFC. For reasons that might have a lot to do with the obtuse strategy of his management and a little to do with the abrasive negotiating approach of Dana White, Emelianenko headed for Strikeforce instead. He fought once and will fight again Saturday, occasionally taking time out to tell media that retirement is looking more and more attractive.

If Emelianenko were wrapping up a UFC stint now, that talk would probably be universally respected. Because he’s busied himself with Brett Rogers and Hong Man Choi, the reaction has been divisive. Half the fans think he’s accomplished it all; half think he’s bailing out through the kitchen, unenthused at the idea of having to fight huge wrestlers populating White’s business.

No fighter can ever walk through every single valuable contender in his era. Even Anderson Silva, so close to cleaning out the UFC’s middleweight division, might one day be historically criticized for never having faced Ronaldo “Jacare” Souza or Yushin Okami. But Emelianenko walking now would be akin to Silva dodging Dan Henderson, Rich Franklin, and Nate Marquardt. Brock Lesnar, Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez aren’t just placeholders: they’re real, relevant challenges that are going to be very curious omissions from Emelianenko’s record.

Emelianenko could be argued as being from a different era. He made his debut in 1999, nearly a decade before the UFC’s current heavyweight crop started competing. And while it may be traditional for aging fighters to sacrifice themselves in a torch-passing beating, Emelianenko may not want to be party to it. Considering that most fighters have to be sedated and dragged from the ring, it would be an incredibly mature -- and possibly influential -- move.

But Lesnar beating Emelianenko does not make him the more accomplished fighter. (Already 32, Lesnar isn’t likely to have a career as ambitious.) What’s relevant is that Emelianenko took on the best the sport had to offer while he could. 10 or 20 years from now, no one is going to remember White barking or promotional politics. All they’re going to understand is that Emelianenko was in good health at a time Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin were eating fighters alive. And he didn’t do anything about it.
 

·
"Focus"
Joined
·
10,181 Posts
Cue all the "Fedor doesn't need to prove anything" and cue "Fedor is dodging everyone" talk now...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
619 Posts
As a fan Fedor has plenty to prove to me. Many will disagree and that is fine, but there are many who will agree. Including much of the media and they will ultimately determine his legacy like it or not. Many of the big names Fedor has on his record were smaller fighters moving up or exUFC fighters on their way down.

To be considered on the current best fighters in the world you have to constantly fight the current best fighters in the world. Fedor has not done that in years. He is given special treatment from a lot of fans. The same special treatment would not be granted to other fighters.

As I noted earlier...as a fan Fedor has plenty to prove to me. No amount of Fedor nuthugging is going to change that opinion. If you disagree with a Fedor fan they claim you dont know MMA...lol. I have been following the sport as long as anyone. Most likely longer than many of the diehard Fedor believers. Unlike many of them I was watching Fedor fights as they happened not watching them on youtube 5 or more years later.
 

·
"Focus"
Joined
·
10,181 Posts
Is Strikeforce in money trouble? I haven't heard anything about it, but it wouldn't surprise me.
No, anyone who thinks SF is closing up shop anytime soon is just being crazy. They won't be challenging the UFC probably ever, but they aren't going the way of Affliction either, too much talent on their roster, it's actually drawing eyes.
 

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
No, anyone who thinks SF is closing up shop anytime soon is just being crazy. They won't be challenging the UFC probably ever, but they aren't going the way of Affliction either, too much talent on their roster, it's actually drawing eyes.
I don't know if you're correct on drawing eyes. Strikeforce's ratings have had a steady decline since Fedor last fought. I don't think they will go out of business either, but I do think they will go back to being just a local small show. I don't see them getting anywhere close to the UFC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
28 Posts
No, anyone who thinks SF is closing up shop anytime soon is just being crazy. They won't be challenging the UFC probably ever, but they aren't going the way of Affliction either, too much talent on their roster, it's actually drawing eyes.
They've been in a steady decline in viewers and the last few events didn't do them any favors.

They have to pay that talent remember?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
What pisses me off about American mentality is the fact they can't see past the fact that Fedor should be in the UFC because he got offered more money there, its like you are a nation just obsessed with greed honestly you should really take a look at yourselves and the BS you write, Fedor probabally has all the Money he needs and is not greedy enough to go running after on his knees ready to pull it out of Dana Whites ass.

I seriously think that Fedor just thinks "fcuk you UFC" after all the trash they have talked on him, all the discredit Dana has thrown his way, would you go and work for a person who has treated you like that if you could get over your greedy self and enlight to a new level of human nature like Fedor has achieved.

I take great pleasure in knowing that its very unlikely that Fedor gives two ticks what the UFC nut huggers think about him because you guys are the joke, keep believing in your unproven heavy weight champion who is yet to beat a single creditable opponent, because the truth is he is the champion of nothing except PPV sales, while Fedor remains the true champion of fighters.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
525 Posts
What pisses me off about American mentality is the fact they can't see past the fact that Fedor should be in the UFC because he got offered more money there, its like you are a nation just obsessed with greed honestly you should really take a look at yourselves and the BS you write, Fedor probabally has all the Money he needs and is not greedy enough to go running after on his knees ready to pull it out of Dana Whites ass.

I seriously think that Fedor just thinks "fcuk you UFC" after all the trash they have talked on him, all the discredit Dana has thrown his way, would you go and work for a person who has treated you like that if you could get over your greedy self and enlight to a new level of human nature like Fedor has achieved.

I take great pleasure in knowing that its very unlikely that Fedor gives two ticks what the UFC nut huggers think about him because you guys are the joke, keep believing in your unproven heavy weight champion who is yet to beat a single creditable opponent, because the truth is he is the champion of nothing except PPV sales, while Fedor remains the true champion of fighters.
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah. About sums up 90% of your post. I agree somewhat with the shit that Dana has talked on him maybe adding to why he won't fight there. I agree Fedor doesn't give a shit about what people think about him. But not even a Fedor sack gobbler like you can say that he's the best in the world, now. And as far as saying Brock is unproven, Fedor is unproven. He beat the best in his day. But he's not proven against the best now. Bottom line, Fedor isn't the best in the world now. I'm sick and tired of you turds that are so in love with Fedor always saying Fedor is the greatest. He will be one of the greatest, historically. Beating up Brett Rogers doesn't make you even good. If he beat Werdum, he's still not great. Then if he beats Overeem, he won't, but if he does, he's still not the best NOW. He is one of the all time greats, but him being at the top of any rankings, HW or p4p, is complete nonsense.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
977 Posts
And if Brock doesn't beat Fedor then he wont be considered one of the best also.. you have to beat the best to be the best.. Fedor is or was the best.. so now what..
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
525 Posts
And if Brock doesn't beat Fedor then he wont be considered one of the best also.. you have to beat the best to be the best.. Fedor is or was the best.. so now what..
What do you mean now what? Fedor IS NOT the best! Get off his nuts. Besides, I'm not making any arguments saying that Brock should be considered the best. Regardless, every single fight that Brock has in the UFC is against far better competition than what Fedor fights now. The better fighter beats the better competition. You can't even begin to argue that Fedor's competition is even on the same planet of who Brock fights every single time. Hell, I'd take Heath Herring over Brett Rogers, easily, maybe even over glassjawed Arlovski and again, easily over Werdum. Fedor fights minor league competition and that can't be argued. Again, that means he CAN'T, currently be called the best.
 

·
"Focus"
Joined
·
10,181 Posts
I don't know if you're correct on drawing eyes. Strikeforce's ratings have had a steady decline since Fedor last fought. I don't think they will go out of business either, but I do think they will go back to being just a local small show. I don't see them getting anywhere close to the UFC.
Let's be honest, the last couple shows haven't exactly had high priority names on the cards. The last was Dan Henderson, but he's not exactly a huge draw. The next CBS show will have more eyes imo just because people talking about the brawl from the last event and Fedor always gets people to tune in.

They have to pay that talent remember?
Yeah, but CBS and Showtime have more money than the UFC by far and they have said they are in for the long haul, if that's true, they won't have a problem paying anyone.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
What do you mean now what? Fedor IS NOT the best! Get off his nuts. Besides, I'm not making any arguments saying that Brock should be considered the best. Regardless, every single fight that Brock has in the UFC is against far better competition than what Fedor fights now. The better fighter beats the better competition. You can't even begin to argue that Fedor's competition is even on the same planet of who Brock fights every single time. Hell, I'd take Heath Herring over Brett Rogers, easily, maybe even over glassjawed Arlovski and again, easily over Werdum. Fedor fights minor league competition and that can't be argued. Again, that means he CAN'T, currently be called the best.
Fedor is the best HW in the world, He hasn't lost a fight in over a decade and destroyed all best HW's in Pride and that was a very deep division back then. Brock has a hand full of fights and lost one fight to a overrated Frank Mir. Chill out with the UFC koolaid. He is simply the best MMA fighter to ever enter a cage or ring in the short history of MMA.
 

·
Abusive
Joined
·
1,806 Posts
Fedor is the best HW in the world, He hasn't lost a fight in over a decade and destroyed all best HW's in Pride and that was a very deep division back then. Brock has a hand full of fights and lost one fight to a overrated Frank Mir. Chill out with the UFC koolaid. He is simply the best MMA fighter to ever enter a cage or ring in the short history of MMA.
"Fedor is the best heavyweight in the world."*

You better get used to seeing that big 'ole asterick next to his name, followed by something around the lines of, "Fedor Emelianenko never fought anyone in the UFC stable, which was considered the best HW division in the world."
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
525 Posts
Fedor is the best HW in the world, He hasn't lost a fight in over a decade and destroyed all best HW's in Pride and that was a very deep division back then. Brock has a hand full of fights and lost one fight to a overrated Frank Mir. Chill out with the UFC koolaid. He is simply the best MMA fighter to ever enter a cage or ring in the short history of MMA.
In that decade, he hasn't fought anybody that's worth a shit since 2005. He fought a one dimensional 205 lber (Mark Coleman), a nobody with a losing record (Mark Hunt), a natural 185 lber (Matt Lindland), another nobody with a losing record (Hong Man Choi), a UFC dropout clearly on the downslide, who also lost to Ray Mercer immediately after (Tim Sylvia), a beast, but a beast with glass jaw (Andrei Arlovski), and an overweight tire mechanic named Brett Rogers. I think it should be said he was losing the last 2 until he threw a wild haymaker. Anyways, which one of those fights means he's currently the best Heavyweight? You even said it yourself, he beat the best THEN. That means he was the best THEN. Being the best then does not mean he's the best now. He will be one of the best MMA fighters to ever fight for his past exploits. But nobody with half-a-brain can make a sensible argument that he's the best now. Before you start arguing that Fedor is god, please take a minute and give some serious thought about the fights I've mentioned and if you have any sense at all, you will have to know what I say is true.
 

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Fedor is the best HW in the world, He hasn't lost a fight in over a decade and destroyed all best HW's in Pride and that was a very deep division back then. Brock has a hand full of fights and lost one fight to a overrated Frank Mir. Chill out with the UFC koolaid. He is simply the best MMA fighter to ever enter a cage or ring in the short history of MMA.
Frank Mir is better than anyone Fedor has beaten since PRIDE.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
Another thing that pisses me off about a lot of so called MMA fans, is the false believe they have that unless someone is fighting for the UFC then they are not worth a shit, fcuking idiots, the UFC fighters are nothing but hyped up better by a bigger promotion, seriously wtf are you guys basing this information on.

Strikeforce at least has the bottle to face its fighters off against top fighters from other promotions and its fighters have a real dam good record of winning these showdowns, which makes the top guys at SF proven at a very high level.

What does the UFC do? cut all ties with other promotions and only allow its fighters to fight each other, only reason we can't see Brock vs Fedor to settle all disputes is because of the UFC, does it hurt Strikeforce, M-1 or Dream when they co-promote? Not at all and we the fans get to see good fights.

You guys say shit like "people outside the UFC are not fighting any legit names" while on the flip side UFC fighters are the only fighters been untested against the rest of the world, then when a ex-UFC champ like Arlovski comes over and get beat they are always "past it", Tim Sylvia was a top contender or Champ at the UFC HW division for how long, now been tested outside the UFC's self acclaimed worlds most elite, cant win sh1t, but this again is because "he is not the fighter he used to be" or because "the UFC has moved up loads since then" year right it was only 3 years ago since he was your champ, he leave and instantly you have JDS, Cain and Brock and you are just so much fcuking better that you have the right to discredit the rest of the worlds fighters.

I hate it when you guys hide behind the excuse "its bad business to co-promote" when looking at Dream and Striekforce this is not only proved to be untrue, but a lame excuse not to see fights. Well I guess it could prove very bad for the UFC's very hyped up and so very well marketed reputation if its fighters where to go against some of the top SF fighters like Fedor, Rogers and Overeem and get exposed.
 

·
On a Rampage
Joined
·
1,845 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Another thing that pisses me off about a lot of so called MMA fans, is the false believe they have that unless someone is fighting for the UFC then they are not worth a shit, fcuking idiots, the UFC fighters are nothing but hyped up better by a bigger promotion, seriously wtf are you guys basing this information on.

Strikeforce at least has the bottle to face its fighters off against top fighters from other promotions and its fighters have a real dam good record of winning these showdowns, which makes the top guys at SF proven at a very high level.

What does the UFC do? cut all ties with other promotions and only allow its fighters to fight each other, only reason we can't see Brock vs Fedor to settle all disputes is because of the UFC, does it hurt Strikeforce or Dream when they co-promote? Not at all and we the fans get to see good fights.

You guys say shit like "people outside the UFC are not fighting any legit names" while on the flip side UFC fighters are the only fighters been untested against the rest of the world, then when a ex-UFC champ like Arlovski comes over and get beat they are always "past it", Tim Sylvia was a top contender or Champ at the UFC HW division for how long, now been tested outside the UFC's self acclaimed worlds most elite, cant win sh1t, but this again is because "he is not the fighter he used to be" or because "the UFC has moved up loads since then" year right it was only 3 years ago since he was your champ, he leave and instantly you have JDS, Cain and Brock and you are just so much fcuking better that you have the right to discredit the rest of the worlds fighters.

I hate it when you guys hide behind the excuse "its bad business to co-promote" when looking at Dream and Striekforce this is not only proved to be untrue, but a lame excuse not to see fights. Well I guess it could prove very bad for the UFC's very hyped up and so very well marketed reputation if its fighters where to go against some of the top SF fighters like Fedor, Rogers and Overeem and get exposed.
The difference is that other than Fedor, a majority the top ranked fighters are in the UFC. That's why when they fight each other they get more respect.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,806 Posts
The difference is that other than Fedor, a majority the top ranked fighters are in the UFC. That's why when they fight each other they get more respect.
These rankings imo dont mean shit they are just speculation and unproven because the UFC is not willing to co-promote, and until they are then the UFC will unproven against other organisations to be fair.

Dont get me wrong the UFC does have some of the very best divisions in the world, dont think many can argue LW right through to LHW the UFC does have the best fighters, but its HW division sucks, aside from JDS and Cain they really have nothing, ether of those 2 fighters could take that belt so easily no matter who has it at the time, Carwin or Brock really does not matter, and they will as soon as they get the title shot, only real question is when they face each other, I really would question if they could get past Fedor or Overeem to get the SF HW title, that is a much harder challenge, which imo makes the elite end of the SF HW division much stronger.
 
1 - 20 of 103 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top