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No, I don't actually have numbers to back up any of the following claims I am about to make. I just happened to notice some things and wondered why it happens.

After watching Fedor vs Rogers a couple of nights ago, it seems a few submissions never show up in MMA. You have your bread and butter arm bar, rear naked choke and triangle choke. Then you have the always useful arm triangle. However, we rarely see successful omoplatas or kimuras anymore. Fedor used to be quite successful with this. And God forbid Fedor losing some skill in his submissions. Karo used to use it to set up some nice throws too.

So, why is it that we don't see more kimuras, omoplatas, or even some slightly more complicated submissions in MMA? The anaconda, d'arce chokes look bad ass when done right! Is the set up THAT much harder?
 

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gogoplata is always a good one
 

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Omoplattas usually never finish because the escape to them is so simple, a guy just has to be willing to sacrifice position to get out before it gets too deep.

Shane del Rosario pulled off the first Omoplatta I've ever seen finished on Friday night at the SF Challengers card though.

D'Arces, Anacondas and Kimuras happen plenty though. Especially Kimuras.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Omoplattas usually never finish because the escape to them is so simple, a guy just has to be willing to sacrifice position to get out before it gets too deep.

Shane del Rosario pulled off the first Omoplatta I've ever seen finished on Friday night at the SF Challengers card though.

D'Arces, Anacondas and Kimuras happen plenty though. Especially Kimuras.
The frequency recently has declined significantly though.
 

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Shane Del Rosario just pulled off a slick Omoplata in Strikeforce Challengers, check it out on youtube if you havent seen it yet, one of the best comeback wins ive seen in awhile. Del Rosario vs Cash.
 

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the one that I miss seeing so much is the heel hook from ken shamrock's prime days.

people don't like to take the risk anymore and aren't skilled enough to use it. I cant remember the last time I have seen it used.
 

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To me it seems as if we are seeing lots more well rounded fighters with a background in wrestling or at least some skill in wrestling break onto the scene. This seems to nullify lots of submissions.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Shane Del Rosario just pulled off a slick Omoplata in Strikeforce Challengers, check it out on youtube if you havent seen it yet, one of the best comeback wins ive seen in awhile. Del Rosario vs Cash.
I actually saw it on live TV, and I didn't even realize what he did until I saw the replay.

the one that I miss seeing so much is the heel hook from ken shamrock's prime days.

people don't like to take the risk anymore and aren't skilled enough to use it. I cant remember the last time I have seen it used.
Exactly! A guy being skilled at leg locks nowadays doesn't really mean anything because it leaves him so exposed. It's a real shame because it would look pretty boss if someone could actually finish a guy with a nasty heel hook.

To me it seems as if we are seeing lots more well rounded fighters with a background in wrestling or at least some skill in wrestling break onto the scene. This seems to nullify lots of submissions.
Well even wrestlers like Coleman and Hendo were submitted before. I will admit that it is a hell of a lot harder to submit a wrestler from a pure BJJ guy's point of view. It's just a shame the rarer submissions are hardly attempted now too.
 

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Unfortunately, it seems that all submissions are becoming rarer, as fighters are going to the ground less and less. With the growth of the sport, there are now more and more casual fans who have less of an appreciation of the ground-game and who aren't happy unless every bout is a toe-to-toe slug-fest. In an attempt to win over these fans and please promoters, many fighters who's strength is in their submission game, are trying to stand and trade strikes, for fear of being labelled "boring".
 

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Exactly! A guy being skilled at leg locks nowadays doesn't really mean anything because it leaves him so exposed. It's a real shame because it would look pretty boss if someone could actually finish a guy with a nasty heel hook.
yha you have to be really skilled to pull it off. I was verry impressed when ken did a knee bar to bas but them most you could do now is to someone like brock who has no experiance.
 

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submissions are best against uneducated opponents. A guy who knows even intermediate BJJ will rip out ANYONE's limbs in half a minute that doesn't know what he's doing.

However the flip side is that people that do know submissions find it very easy to escape from any but the fastest and most efficient subs. These are obviously the Armbar, RNC, Triangle and Guillotine. All others can not only be powered out of by good grapplers, they will lose you position and a ton of cardio. I remember I totally gassed out trying to Darce choke someone once, and then got reversed and mounted.

I also find the rubber guard to be very inefficient against knowledgeable grapplers, just because of the massive number of transitions it takes to get anywhere with it, and at any one of those an opponent can power out. People talk about it like the next level of subs, but it really is too overcomplicated for the most part, unless you live and breath it like McLovin.
 

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Talk about the underdogs in the submission department,:) how often do you see THIS:
I've seen Frank Shamrock show some fancy neck cranks using the legs, in one of his tutorial vids, but to see one actually used to finish a fight is something else! I love seeing the rarer submissions. :thumbsup:

submissions are best against uneducated opponents. A guy who knows even intermediate BJJ will rip out ANYONE's limbs in half a minute that doesn't know what he's doing.

However the flip side is that people that do know submissions find it very easy to escape from any but the fastest and most efficient subs. These are obviously the Armbar, RNC, Triangle and Guillotine. All others can not only be powered out of by good grapplers, they will lose you position and a ton of cardio. I remember I totally gassed out trying to Darce choke someone once, and then got reversed and mounted.

I also find the rubber guard to be very inefficient against knowledgeable grapplers, just because of the massive number of transitions it takes to get anywhere with it, and at any one of those an opponent can power out. People talk about it like the next level of subs, but it really is too overcomplicated for the most part, unless you live and breath it like McLovin.
I think the Rubber Guard is something that you have to put a lot of time in to before it becomes very effective. You really have to develop the proper strength, technique and flexibility. I think a lot of people try it out and it doesn't work for them, and so they drop it and blame the guard itself, when really they haven't given it the work it requires to do it properly. When you see someone using the Rubber Guard like Eddie Bravo, who really knows what he is doing and has developed the required strength and flexibility, there is no doubt in my mind that it can be a highly dangerous and effective guard. IMO it should be a part of any serious grappler's arsenal.
 

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I wish there were more subs too, really you see triangles, RNC's, Ambars or Kimura's that about it and they seem like there are fewer these days in the fights...

Not just UFC or Strikeforce but Dream as well and the other promotions...
 

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That was awesome.

And yeah, we definitely need to see more subs in mma. There hasn't been many lately.
That's why I love watching old Pancrase matches. Submissions galore! Here's another gem from Catch wrestling expert Minoru Suzuki:
 
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