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ebonics-lover said:
NO I didn't see the fight. Some guy in a bar as brilliant as Dana White told me about it. Gonzaga would shit anywhere else. I think it's pretty obvious this is not the same crocop as 2-3 years ago. I never liked him anyway.
I don't give a shite about the places where they all fight but if someone starts glorifying that piece of s**t White I can't handle it. I hope this scumbag dies soon.
I've never seen NOgueira cracked like that before but aside of that I think he looked good and his boxing was actually top notch against Herring. Herring is also not the same these days but just few years ago he was the shit.
Your writing nonsense about Werdum. I see him maiking at least top 5 in UFC today.
Who gives a **** about what Barnett used or not? It's his decision if he wants to ruin his body nobody's else. I'm only interested in seeing him fight. At least his fights are not boring.
I never typed an amazing HW lineup but these fighters are better than the UFC retards period. Of course everybody likes Randy I got nothing against him but he just hasn't fought all the top dogs yet so
Gomi knocks out BJ I dance on his grave :)
Gomi also knocks out Franca but I'm sure he wouldn;t take out NO NECK Sherk.
Diaz also owns bJ so until they fight there is nothing you can type that's gonna make me think otherwise.
I also think believe if Kharitonov could keep it standing against NOgueira today he could take it. I think Kharitonov would destroy Arlovski and Randy.
First off, I think Dana White's an idiot too. The guy's a loud-mouthed uncouth fbomb dropping miserly piece of trash thats probably landed his job by giving the fertittas some man-love.

This discussion was not about him though, it was about the talent in the two MMA orgs, and I have even more proof on my side after UFC 76. NOW in comes your world #1 LHW Shogun and also gets the $hit beat out of him by a middle of the road TUF fighter. Wow .. how the hell were these $hitty fighters from the "Elite MMA org" ever ranked #1 in the world? And don't try quoting Liddell's loss as a counter-point, Liddell did MUCH better against Jardine, based on how smashed Jardine's face was; I'd say Liddell would've won that fight if not for him doing nothing about the 10000 leg kicks, which didn't really seem to damage him a ton but they scored points.

As for your question about who cares about what Barnett used, the answer is every MMA fan who's not a fukin tard. Next thing you know you'll be cheering when Barnett grabs a steel chair and pelts Randy over the head with it, while Big John is distracted by his hot but slutty blonde bombshell manager. This ain't drama, It's a real sport, and if someone's unevening the field, it's cheating. It's not just about him messing up his body, it's about gaining an unfair short term advantage which is stupid because it will only fuk you up in the long term. Heck, maybe Randy should've brought in a shotgun then, who cares what he uses or not :)?

And if "these (PRIDE) fighters are better than the UFC retards period", maybe they should actually start winning against UFC guys. What you "think" doesn't mean $hit when what we see is more and more evidence to the contrary.
 

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Liddellianenko said:
And if "these (PRIDE) fighters are better than the UFC retards period", maybe they should actually start winning against UFC guys. What you "think" doesn't mean $hit when what we see is more and more evidence to the contrary.
How many Pride guys have actually lost AND fought at there best? Two maybe three? The others basically all gave mediocre performances and were still capable of winning their debuts.
 

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KO artist
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GMW said:
UFC does that all the time when they are building someone up. Michael Bisping, roger huerta, etc. They are ready for higher opponents but they keep getting fed below there level.
It's pretty well known, by everyone including pride fans, that pride matchmaking was terrible.
It is still easy to say Pride was better though. CC has a faster reaction time then Tim sylvia, better overall striking then sylvia or arlovski (not better boxing specifically im sure), GnP defense is tight, etc. We can just look at everything they do and see SOME PRIDE FIGHTERS, are better then UFC fighters.
By the way, you only looked at the UFC fighters who went to Pride and won. If you compare them all it's about equal.
Ok so the UFC does it for a handful of TUF guys they're trying to build.. Huerta, Bisping and Diego are the only ones that come to mind. Even so, they've fought better than the first-timers that PRIDE gave their veterans.

Also, you can't say someone has better striking, better reaction time etc than someone else when they've fought completely different competition. Anyone can look amazing when they fight guys way below their level, which was the case in PRIDE.

Besides, how impressive someone's fighting looks has nothing to do with how effective it is. Chuck Liddell's fighting techniquq looks like $hit. And I've seen some great amateur cage fighters with really good reaction time, athleticism, techniques, takedowns, kicks, heck even decent flying kicks and spinning kicks. But put any of those guys against cave-man stance Liddell or even awkward orangutan Jardine, and they'd get murdered.

And as for CroCop having faster reaction time etc. than Tim Sylvia, I'll make you a sig bet right now for Tim in a future matchup. Slow and boring he may be, but he's fought and beat far more diverse competition than CroCop, who's only beaten cans and grapplers that play to his strengths. And his GnP defence was HORRIBLE, consisted of nothing more than lying on his back, trying to hold down the other guy's arms and praying for a standup. Zero submissions or offense from the ground. Throw in some elbows and he's dead. And real life has no standups.
 

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Liddellianenko said:
And I've seen some great amateur cage fighters with really good reaction time, athleticism, techniques, takedowns, kicks, heck even decent flying kicks and spinning kicks. But put any of those guys against cave-man stance Liddell or even awkward orangutan Jardine, and they'd get murdered.
If they look better then liddell in all aspects then what reason do you have to believe they would lose to liddell?
I honestly think that you just don't know how to asses a fighter. Infact I know this based on your comment about measuring reaction time which Ill comment on later. But anyways back to the first part, if you are not going to measure a fighters worth on how good they look, then what reason do you have to think Pride fighters are overrated and UFC is better? I have an idea of how you'll respond so let's see.
 

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GMW said:
If they look better then liddell in all aspects then what reason do you have to believe they would lose to liddell?
I honestly think that you just don't know how to asses a fighter. Infact I know this based on your comment about measuring reaction time which Ill comment on later. But anyways back to the first part, if you are not going to measure a fighters worth on how good they look, then what reason do you have to think Pride fighters are overrated and UFC is better? I have an idea of how you'll respond so let's see.
You have an idea of how I'll respond because it's the same rational argument any logical human being with eyes would give, as opposed to delusional nuthuggers. With the exception of Rampage, and possibly Anderson Silva (whose 3 meager fights in PRIDE with opponents far below his level should hardly count to make him a PRIDE fighter), all of them have got their a$$ handed to them by UFC guys every time they've fought. This isn't just something new, it's happened for decades, and the argument has always been "oh, in that fight, he wasn't the same <insert lovable nuthugging nickname> we know from <insert impressive wins against PRIDE-cans/tired GP opponents>". Here's the facts:

1. Wanderlei Silva - "Most feared LHW in the world", #1 all MMA experts will tell you. Got destroyed both times he fought in the UFC .. first by Belfort in less than a minute, then by Ortiz. The excuses come thick and fast.. that was way long ago in his career blah blah. Funny.. looks like the Ortiz loss was close to the middle of his career, with plenty of wins before and after it so it wasn't a matter of form.

2. Shogun - Wow, what an anti-climax. Another "#1 LHW in the world".. The guy was $hit against Griffin, IMO a very mediocre UFC LHW. True, he beat the current UFC LHW champ back in PRIDE, but looking at how horrible he did in comparison over here, I'm really suspecting some serious roid action back in PRIDE.

3. CroCop - Another overhyped one-dimensional $hite fighter with only ONE move .. "#2 HW in the world"! Seriously. How hard is it to look out for a bloody left kick, if that's all the guy's gameplan is? He didn't just lose in the UFC, he has the dubious honor of being possibly the worst KO in MMA history.

4. Takanori Gomi - Honorable mention, we are on his thread after all. "#1 LW in the world" .. Are we seeing a pattern yet? In he comes against BJ Penn.. wow, don't think I have ever seen more one-sided domination in my life. I don't think Gomi landed a single punch that whole fight.. got smacked continously on his feet, on his back, on his front with BJ on his back.. it was like a textbook display of all the areas you could smack a guy around from. Not to mention the Nick Diaz loss, that got NCd by zealous national agency out to protect it's so called #1 LW. For what, smoking pot? Seriously, Nakamura got caught with that one yesterday and all the US agency gave him was $500 fine and 3 months ban.

5. Barnett - So he beat Couture, while pumped full of roids and testing +ve. If someone even tries to defend or uphold that, they can go back to watching pro wrestling. That is pure BS and it doesn't count.

6. Mishima - "One of the top LWs in the world". Saw him get owned by Joe Daddy in a couple of mins, by repeatedly sticking his fool neck right into his guillotine over and over. A sorrier display of MMA I have yet to see. And then followed by another straight loss to KenFlo. Seriously, do these guys EVER win in the UFC?
 

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GMW said:
If they look better then liddell in all aspects then what reason do you have to believe they would lose to liddell?
I honestly think that you just don't know how to asses a fighter. Infact I know this based on your comment about measuring reaction time which Ill comment on later. But anyways back to the first part, if you are not going to measure a fighters worth on how good they look, then what reason do you have to think Pride fighters are overrated and UFC is better? I have an idea of how you'll respond so let's see.
As for measuring how good or bad a fighter is, I look at who he beat, and how dominating the victory was, and who he lost to and how bad the loss was. It's the only rational way to judge in most competitive sports. Those impressive amatuer fighters I've seen would lose to better less impressive looking fighters because I've seen it happen, so to speak. Not to Liddell and the like of course, but their amateur equivalent .. unimpressive looking fighters with brutal KO power and that fighter's instinct that you just can't evaluate in scientific terms. I live in Iowa, so I saw this very athletic kicker with excellent speed do very well a couple of fights against lesser opponents in the ICF (I think it was). Then he went up against one of the contenders, and was KOd horribly in less than a minute .. not just a fluke punch, the guy was dominated and stalked down completely in that short time. And the guy that did it was a pudgy, trashy-looking 30 something guy with none of the athleticism or reaction time that the other guy displayed, just KO power and "fighter's instinct". But I forgot, you're an elitist PRIDE fan, you don't believe in results, just complicated and useless armchair-expert MMA analysis.
 

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Wanderlei: He fought 7 or 8 years ago, and tito Ortiz ran when they were standing up. Since you bring up logic, anyone can logically conclude that wanderlei would most likely win today because he has advanced so much and Ortiz can't run from his stand up.

Shogun: I guess I’m getting back to the he wasn't himself argument, but have you seen his Pride fights? If you say you have then I don’t understand how you can honestly say that he fought at his normal level.

CC: Yeah, disappointing, not quiet his self, but even then, it should be noted that when the UFC vs. Pride debates were really going on, Gonzaga was not even part of the UFC when we were talking about who has the better fighters. Cheick Kongo is also considerably better then he was before.

Gomi: Yup, he lost, it happens.

Barnett: Ok, if you want to throw it out, you have to throw out A LOT of UFC fighters then (Sherk, Tim Sylvia two champs for example but there are more).

Anderson Silva isn't really a Pride fighter, everyone agrees with that.

Another thing you are forgetting is that those who believe Pride had higher caliber fighter did not think (for the most part) that every single UFC is crap. Most knew Arlovski, Sylvia, liddell, Ortiz, BJ penn, sherk, etc are all solid fighters. It’s just the average skill of Pride fighters in their respective rule set and ring/cage was higher.

I have more I’ll add later if you can’t figure out the hypocrisy in the examples used and your reasoning.
 

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Liddellianenko said:
As for measuring how good or bad a fighter is, I look at who he beat, and how dominating the victory was, and who he lost to and how bad the loss was. It's the only rational way to judge in most competitive sports.
We all look at who they beat, but to know if who they beat matters we look at how technical, strong, etc they are. Tim Sylvia beat Arlovski, and monson but I wouldn’t necessarily say he’s more skilled.

Liddellianenko said:
Those impressive amatuer fighters I've seen would lose to better less impressive looking fighters because I've seen it happen, so to speak. Not to Liddell and the like of course, but their amateur equivalent. Unimpressive looking fighters with brutal KO power and that fighter's instinct that you just can't evaluate in scientific terms. And the guy that did it was a pudgy, trashy-looking 30 something guy with none of the athleticism or reaction time that the other guy displayed, just KO power and "fighter's instinct".
I don’t even think you get what I mean. There is a lot to take it account which you are simply not doing….should I go over that?

Liddellianenko said:
But I forgot, you're an elitist PRIDE fan, you don't believe in results, just complicated and useless armchair-expert MMA analysis.
This isn’t true, I never ordered a Pride event but I order every UFC event. I didn’t get into Pride until a few months back.
 

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how did a gomi thread turn into prde vs ufc lol and where the hell did you ever get the idea that mishima was one of the top fighters in the world even before back to back losses against daddy and kenflo:confused03:
 

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WOW ease up on the UFC nut hugging Liddellianenko.

Let's get this back on track. Gomi is a great fighter. His record speaks for itself.

Sure he has a few losses but that doesn't take anything away from what he has achieved so far.

He is definately up there in the LW division. I really hope the UFC signs him cause he would definately be an asset to the organization. Plus the matchups would be bad ass.
 

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Like I said earlier, didn't mean for this to turn into a UFC vs PRIDE thread.. just had to lay some stuff down reading some of the comparisons made earlier. I do think Gomi's a pretty good fighter however, in spite of what I wrote. Apologies for hijacking the thread.
 

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when the hell is his next fight!?
 

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rumor... wth, why isn't he fighting for sure anytime soon?
 

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gomi would get tooled in the ufc. SHERK,Penn,Florian could kick this guys ass even tho bj already did.i dont agree with sherdog as putting him #1 in lw. i dont even think he is top 10.
 

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gomi would get tooled in the ufc. SHERK,Penn,Florian could kick this guys ass even tho bj already did.i dont agree with sherdog as putting him #1 in lw. i dont even think he is top 10.
he has beaten a number of guys in the top 10
 
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