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Discussion Starter #1
out of the big 4, who do you see (if any) as being the best/worst ?? i personally think if there was to be one looser of the 3 fight combinations i.e. brock vs cerwin/cain/jds.... i see jds potentially comin out as the lower of the 4... i just want to see him in there with a big strong wrestler... like the 3 mentioned! im not doubting him... i just want to see him in there, and until i do, im gonna have to rank him as the weakest of the 4

as for the best... to hard to call, to much potential knock out power to say i think

thoughts ??
 

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Too close to judge, but I don't think JDS is big enough for any of the other 3. Cain needs to gain some size, if he got up to 265 and kept his athletic abilities he would def be number 1 in my book.
 

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1. Brock
2. JDS
3. Carwin
4. Cain

May seem wrong to alot of peeps but this is how i see it, i think JDS striking is too good for Cain/Carwin and no doubt JDS has/will be working on his TDD alot, i personally think his striking is too much, a very good striker can also pose a threat to any level wrestlers, ala' Chuck.

P.S not a massive JDS nuthugger, ive just been most impressed with him.
 

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... I don't think JDS is big enough for any of the other 3.
JDS is bigger than Cain in height and stature. They're pretty much the same weight I think.

Cain needs to gain some size, if he got up to 265 and kept his athletic abilities he would def be number 1 in my book.
And I don't think Cain is ever going to get to 265, in all honesty.

As much as I hate to admit it, in my book Brock is number one. Then it's Carwin, Cain and JDS. It's close though, theres isn't a huge gulf between any of them.
 

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I think they can all best each other on any given night. I'm not sure there is a "dominating" force between the 4. I favor Brock, but the remaining 3 are legitimately and competitively close. Based on speculation alone with the facts we have leading up to this point, I think the belt can rotate between the 4 with relative frequency.
 

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I'd rank them as :
1) Brock
2) Carwin
3) Cain
4) JDS

But that's just me...
That works for me, but to tell the truth I don't know. I've believed for a long time these guys were a cut above all other HW's, but calling the best at this point is hard.

Brock has weaknesses in stand up and BJJ, but since none of those are a real threat with BJJ, it's not an issue. Carwin has weakness in his stand up as well. Cain is a bit small, and JDS very likely has weaknesses on the ground, but has the standup to destroy all 3 of the others. Then again, Cain's standup looked pretty good recently. I can see any of these beating any of the others.

I love it! MMA has needed a HW division for a long time. This is going to be great for the sport.
 

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I think Cain will be the last to get the belt out of these, I think Carwin is the only one who can Lesnar but think JDS can stand up with Carwin and I think if JDS has it Cain could take him down and maybe handle him, Thatd have to be the chain in my eyes. But than again anyone can beat anyone
 

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Discussion Starter #10
anyone know what jds' other qualities are apart from his stand up ? im ashamed to saay i know little about the man still.. had he got any wrestling / bjj credentials ??
 

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There's no point in ranking these guys, as they're all going to fight for the belt soon enough.

Aw, what the heck, I'd rate JDS at the bottom of this elite group simply because he doesn't have the wrestling of the other three fighters. In addition, he gives up a lot of size and strength to Brock and Carwin. Otherwise, it's a complete toss-up and only time will tell.

Both Brock and Carwin have KO power even with short punches, but Brock is the champ, and has shown that he can completely overwhelm and control an opponent on the ground (as well as get him there with takedowns).

Cain was astonishingly good against Nogueira. Having said that it seems like a lot of heavyweights suddenly display championship caliber boxing or kickboxing, or at least highlight reel boxing, when they fight Nogueira (Cain, Mur, Sylvia, Herring). So yes, Cain looked very sharp, but so have a whole string of UFC heavyweights who've squared off against Nogueira. Therefore:

1. Brock
2a. Carwin
2b. Cain
4. Junior

It's very close though.

I would love to see a new dominant challenger emerge, however. I don't care who it is: Mur X.0, Roy Buddha Belly Nelson, Gonzaga after he suddenly drops his team to train with Greg Jackson, it doesn't matter. I want to see this division get deeper and deeper with talent.
 

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in terms of talent i would have it

1. Cain
2. JDS
3. Lesnar
4. Carwin

but these beasts hit to hard its foolish to think any fight would be a cakewalk for the smaller guys.

I still think its foolish to have Brock way above everybody at 4-1....

it's pretty close and with the power these guys pack it doesnt take much to have the skill advantage go right down the drain.

i think Cain, JDS and Carwin have better camps then Brock and are growing faster then Brock.

jmo
 

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in terms of talent i would have it

1. Cain
2. JDS
3. Lesnar
4. Carwin

but these beasts hit to hard its foolish to think any fight would be a cakewalk for the smaller guys.

I still think its foolish to have Brock way above everybody at 4-1....

it's pretty close and with the power these guys pack it doesnt take much to have the skill advantage go right down the drain.

i think Cain, JDS and Carwin have better camps then Brock and are growing faster then Brock.

jmo
What? I'm shocked! :eek03:

:) Seriously, though, I don't count Cain out. Is Carwin going to back him into the cage and beat him down? Not a chance. Is Lesnar going to take him down at will? I don't think so. Interestingly, JDS seems to be the worst match up for him, using the Kongo fight for insight, but I don't see that fight staying on the feet. I don't think the other 3 have shown the blueprint yet for beating Cain. If they do beat him, it's going to have to be in a different manner than they've exhibited so far.
 

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lol im going for the opposite of most people
Cain,
JDS
carwin
Lesnar
simply put the lighter 2 men are too smart for brock and carwin
 

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Brock
Carwin
JDS
Cain (Mir)
Mir
Nog
Who cares

Personally I think Mir can take Cain but that's me and after Saturday I have a hard time defending it.
 

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Those are 4 scary heavyweights and I have to say will only get better with time.
These fighters are either young (Cain and JDS) or new to MMA (Brock, Shane).

But there are some holes/unknowns for all three IMHO.

Brock: Only has a few fights and although 2 were against top ranked HWs these were either undersized (Couture) or not known for their speed/athleticism (Mir) and everything I’ve seen with Brock tells me that his takedowns may be insanely fast and effective but he only seems to be able to move forwards, no lateral movement at all.

Cain: Probably the best all around skill wise (along with JDS) but undersized for a HW and didn’t fair too well against a striker with a good reach like Congo. Yea he won the fight but had Check possessed ANY wrestling ability or TDD the outcome might have been different. How will he take down ANY of the other top 3?

JDS: Probably the best all around striker of the 4 (and we even saw some kicks and knees in his last fight) but so far untested on the ground. Great camp but how will he be able to keep it standing when facing the other 3 world class wrestlers? IF he can keep it standing he SHOULD be favored but that’s a big if.

Carwin: The guy has TNT in each glove, one shot changes the fight but what is his submission defense like? Gonzaga was able to get him down, not a good sign as Cain and Brock are even faster, stronger and relentless. Can he out strike someone like JDS who has faster hands and better footwork?

These 4 plus some young guns makes the UFC heavyweight division the best most exciting its ever been.
I would pay to see ANY of these fights.
 

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The way they are right now, phisicaly, i would put them:
1 Brock
2 Carwin
3 JDS
4 Cain.

And her comes the "IF".
If Cain and JDS could bulk up, let's say, to about 250 at least, i think they would be very hard to beat and they would dominate the HW division. Just because i think they are far superior to Brock and Carwin, technically.
 

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  1. JDS
    • Carwin - JDS has speed, accuracy and enough power to end it
    • Cain - Similar speed and Cain would have a good gameplan to avoid exchanging, Cain would probably win via UD or GnP.
    • Lesnar - Lesnar is too predictable with his TDs when they aren't set up by a punch.
  2. Carwin
    • Cain - Pretty even wrestling, but I feel Carwin has more ways to end it, well Left or Right on the feet or GnP.
    • Lesnar - Lesnar is a bit quicker than Carwin, but Carwin will tag him at least once and that's all she wrote.
  3. Cain
    • Lesnar - Would outwork Lesnar, 3 round fight would be close but 5 round would be Cain.
  4. Lesnar

Really none of them are really justifiable more than 65-35 type of odds but for the sake of ranking and trying to use the lists, I didn't elaborate too much :)
 

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Calminian;1148322 I love it! MMA has needed a HW division for a long time. This is going to be great for the sport.[/QUOTE said:
YES! although I would love to see each of the other three take his turn beating Brock.
 
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